its baaackk.... BSA policy on homosexuals and leadership

[Once_Eagle-Always_Eagle]

I fully realize this has been beaten to death in other threads (e.g. When will National realize this is affecting membership). My concern is that this topic appears to have a lot of social momentum and I'd like to see us rally together in support of the BSA policy.

 

For those that may have missed the national news headlines in the last week, this is all over the news again and is now a change.org petition. The wording of the change.org petition I am wishing to counter is shown below:

 

### start of change.org petition ###

 

My 7-year-old son, Cruz, loves being a Cub Scout, and he really loved when I got to be his pack's den leader. But the Boy Scouts of America asked me to step down as the leader of my son's group -- just because I'm gay. Cruz doesn't understand why that matters, and frankly, neither do I.

 

When Cruz told us last year that he wanted to be a Boy Scout, my partner and I were concerned. We knew the organization has discriminated against families like ours before. But the other families in Cruz's group were so welcoming and supportive - they even asked me to be a den leader on the first day.

 

One year later, our fears came to life. A representative of the Boy Scouts of America abruptly told me I was no longer welcome - that because I'm gay, I didn't "meet the high standards of membership that the Boy Scouts of America seek."

 

I hated feeling that my family had been discriminated against, so I started a petition on Change.org asking the Boy Scouts of America to stop discriminating against gay people. Click here to sign my petition.

 

During the year that I was den leader, my cubs performed volunteer service at a local soup kitchen, collected canned goods for area churches to distribute in food baskets, and worked on a conservation project for a state park.

 

After I was asked to leave, other parents from my pack were outraged. Some of them even waited for hours to voice their concerns to Boy Scout officials, but they were turned away. As for Cruz, he doesn't really understand why there's a problem. He made a sign that says "I love my two gay moms."

 

Other organizations like the Girl Scouts and Boys & Girls Clubs of America welcome gay kids as well as adult leaders -- I know that if thousands of people sign my petition, the Boy Scouts will see that it's time for them to adopt a policy that incorporates their own core values of compassion and respect.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Here's the link to the petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/boy-scouts-of-america-reinstate-cub-scout-leader-who-was-removed-for-being-gay

 

[Once_Eagle-Always_Eagle]

Ah packsaddle... :-( I didn't link to the petition on purpose. I didn't want anyone to sign it. I want to support the BSA policy.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmmm....

 

I'm a supporter of the BSA policy, Once_Eagle, but I'm not sure that it's the right approach to rally over kickin' a kid's mom out. Truth be told, I consider that sort of thing sad, and I do feel for the kid. Mom clearly knew what she was gettin' into, and the local pack should have known the score as well, so they're the folks who set up this awkward situation. It's nuthin' to rally together for, though. It's just unfortunate that a kid has been put in the middle of adult social agendas.

 

B

[Once_Eagle-Always_Eagle]

as usual beavah- wise reply. i'm just scared the bsa will cave to the societal pressure... but i conceed the wisdom of your position.

[Horizon]

If folks want to read a little more background on this one:

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-boy-scouts-lesbian-pack-leader-20120427,0,2353253.story

 

"the local cub master put her at ease. 'He assured me at the local level it would never be a problem, she said in an interview with the Los Angeles Times. From Day 1, I was open and honest about it.' '

 

So this is a case where a local unit did not care, and it sounds like they needed a leader as well. Someone called Council, and once Council was told they pulled her registration.

 

Too bad. Committed relationship, lots of kids, willing to take the lead, approval and endorsement by the unit - everything about her sounds like a perfect candidate for a Den Leader.

 

Yeah, I know. We can run a list of the typical reasons why some people don't want her to be a Leader, and others (like me) can say why we wish there was local control on this. Then someone can jump in with the "love it or leave it" statement. Someone else can push back. I don't think there is anything truly new here, except that these types of cases are only going to increase over time.

[eolesen]

I've seen a lot of petitions start and fail at Change.Org, but this one is trending pretty strongly... this one has 255,000 signatures in just 12 days.

 

It is running #2 for the week, beat only by "Repeal Floridas reckless shoot first law that shields Trayvons killer" (which to me appears to be a misguided attempt as more and more un-edited facts come out...).

[skeptic]

Just one more reason to put leadership choice and decisions in the CO hands, unless they overlook something from a background check. Maybe the new administration will review this again; one can hope.

[packsaddle]

"I didn't link to the petition on purpose. I didn't want anyone to sign it."

This is troubling. In order to promote your personal view, you would limit access to information. It is a tactic which I cannot support. I linked to the petition so that anyone who reads this thread can make their own free choice. I do not understand why you would want them not to have that ability.

[shortridge]

Just signed. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

 

Irving is 20 years behind the times with this. Let's pull our collective heads out of a few churches' sandpits and let local units make their own decisions.

[moosetracker]

I saw a video clip newscast on it.. Not sure how to link into it now.. But though I felt for the women, and whoever was representing her (someone who had just taken head position for some gay/lesbien group).. I felt they were totally out of their element taking on BSA and would be squashed like bugs..

 

Don't get me wrong, I will cheer for them myself, but they just seemed very naive.. They were not going to just fight for the Gay/Lesbian, but to open scouts for all includeing atheists, with a statement of, "We don't think we need to fight this in the court system, we will just talk to the BS Leaders.. After all this is the year 2012"..

 

Okay Dokay.. Good luck with that approach!!!.. Yep, squashed like bugs..

 

Listening to all going on in the News on the Catholics the last two weeks, I do see why it will be hard for BS to open their doors to allowing it to be CO's choice. Catholics, have started some sort of political fight to not only control the their nuns, the voting choices of their parishioners, but also the medical decisions of non-catholics who work for them by firing them because they choose to have medical treatment they disapprove of..

 

I have learned great respect for the Catholic nuns, and there was one Catholic church whose father refused to hold a political campaign at his church and got a standing applause from his congregation, so I guess their may be some Catholic preists who will have my respect.. But, my opinion of the Catholic bishops & Pope, have gone downhill. (And per Beavah, there wasn't much futher they could go.. But he was wrong, because they sure slid way way down in my opion over the last few weeks.)

 

Yep.. LDS threatens to leave if BS opens up to allowing everyone to think for themselves.. I can see the Catholics definately would leave too.. A few months ago I questioned why anyone feared a Catholic president before JFK.. Now I have learned what their fear was.. I know until this Pope is replaced, and until I see one who does not want to rule the world.. I too would fear it.

 

[DuncanHill]

I'd already signed the petition before seeing this thread.

 

Many in Scouting in the UK find BSA's position on LGBT leaders hard to understand, and I'll make no secret of the fact that I find it upsetting - both as a Scout and as a gay man. It is painful to me that I would not be welcomed as a fellow Scout in the USA. I think also it sends a bad message to young people - that BSA does not welcome their parents or even themselves.

[moosetracker]

Welcome again Duncan! I think one of our other forum members from the UK has an assistant who is gay..

 

It is both a generational thing, and we are also being strangled and hogtied by the fact that they set the program up to be owned by CO's.. Most CO's are church's and just like the same-sex marriage arguement going on in our country, where some church's are not content to tend their own flock, but must try to dictate to the rest of the country, and the more liberal churchs what their opinion should be.. That same fear of not being able to control the tied of change has them forcing the BSA in a strangle hold, with threats of leaving if CO's can have a freedom to choose..

 

So seeing you have really been in the heart of it. Has the UK been totally open to homosexuality all your life, or did you have some battles?.. How is the Catholic Church reacting to your more accepting society? Is the UK just viewed as a lost cause, or are they trying to push the genie back into the bottle?

 

As you can see at least their is pushing both inside and outside for a demand for change.. If not for the CO issue and the fear of loosing a big chunk of units, my guess would have been that it would have happened by now.. But, I think due to how we are set up, it will probably take a generation or two, and the loss of more & more members as each generation sees the policy as more and more unfair, to the point that the benefits do not outway the negatives.

 

They will need to fear the loss of the whole movement one way or the other, in order for them to make the decision to do what is right.

[DuncanHill]

Thanks Moosetracker.

 

There have been major changes in the UK in my lifetime (I'm 42 by the way). On the legal front we've had equalisation of the age of consent, prohibition of discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation in employment, the introduction of civil partnerships etc. There's also been a big change in social attitudes, and visibility. For an increasing number of people sexual orientation is seen as "no big deal" - certainly not as something to judge a person's character or abilities by.

 

There is still some prejudice, and some (by no means all) religious bodies are very resistant to further change. The current debate over gay marriage here is a case in point. Catholic Church very anti, Anglicans (what you call Episcopalians) divided, but Liberal and Reform Judaism, the Quakers and the Unitarians in favour.

 

The Scout Association adopted an equal opportunities policy several years ago (I think it was the early 90's) which prohibited discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation, both for leaders and young people. Most of the impetus for that came from within the movement. It's worth pointing out that TSA had never had a ban on gay people in the first place. They have also produced factsheets to support young people who are gay, adults who are gay, and also for adults who are come out to by a young person. These have been generally well-received, though I think your point about it being a generational thing has some merit. We all know a few "old timers" who find it hard to deal with change.

 

From what I've read of how BSA and Chartering Organizations work, the COs have much more control over how Scouting operates on the ground than sponsoring bodies do in the UK (and it's also worth noting that many UK groups are not sponsored).

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

I wonder what the BSA response would be if supporters of gay scouting wore pink (or other uniform color) neckers or some other symbol at the World Jambo?(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)