Remington shotguns, rifles claim pattern of inadvertent discharges

[Eamonn]

Remington shotguns, rifles claim pattern of inadvertent discharges.

This was a news story on NBC.

I'm not a gun lover, but do worry if we have Scouts who might be harmed.

Welcome your thoughts and opinions.

Ea.

[packsaddle]

I saw it. There's a lot on the web about it too - it's a long-standing well-known problem. I'm fairly certain that Remington fixed this with a new trigger safety mechanism but older rifles may still have the problem. The model 700 is the one that is really implicated and Boy Scouts will probably never encounter that one on a scouting event. The firearms scouts are likely to use are not the 700s. I'm not the least bit worried. To me the real risk is some kid turning to smile at a friend while holding the little 22s they use at camp. Carelessness is a far greater risk IMHO.

 

Edit: Just looked it up and the model 870 shotgun is also implicated. I don't know much about that one. I'm not sure if BSA uses those at camps.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Gunny2862]

As most events Scout will encounter firearms at are Range situations, then even if these firearms were used then basic Range precautions IF FOLLOWED should keep there from being any incidents with injury.

 

The incidents I'm aware of with the rifles, and with this issue I'm sure there are those I'm not, even when hunting the basic precautions should suffice IF FOLLOWED. Silly seeming things like unloading before crossing a fence, actually keeping the safety on until ready to fire, making it a practice to NEVER have your finger inside the guard until ready to fire, etc. go a long way towards preventing inadvertent discharges.

 

Also having a Limited Technical Inspection by a Competent Gunsmith wouldn't be out of line for any of these that you encounter, especially if you are going to put them into the hands of Scouts or other youth. When asking them to do the LTI voice your concern over this issue and ask about anything they may know about that could be done to lessen the likelihood of a mechanically caused inadvertent discharge on your particular firearm.

 

 

[nldscout]

I read the stories. Its not new news. This story has been around for a long time.

 

I also read the stories of some of those injured. Everyone committed a really stupid act. One leaned a loaded shotgun, that he says the safety was on, against the tire of his vehicle. Never lean a loaded gun against a vehicle. In NY that would cost you a Misdemenor conviction and loss of your gun.

 

You cannot fix stupid.

[desertrat77]

Two words:

 

Muzzle control.

[EagleScout02]

What you said is true.

Remington's older firearms were know to have to occur. However, most of the time it wasn't because of the firearm it was because of the person holding the firearm didn't do it correctly.

The reason that they did the update of the trigger was to dummy proof the guns. You look at most handguns now days and the use what is called the butterfly trigger. This type of trigger has to be correctly pressed for the firearm to fire.

Remington has corrected the "problem" and made their firearms more dummy proof.

I have a Remington 700 and I've never had a problem with it what so ever.

But like with any firearm everyone has their opinion on what is good and bad.

Just remember the best safety in a firearm is your finger.

 

[Eamonn]

As posted I'm not into guns and firearms.

Unfortunately a couple of years back (On Father's Day) I was asleep when the phone rang at 2:00 AM. It was my son. I didn't get to the phone in time so he left a message, saying "Dad I've shot myself, the ambulance is coming."

As a rule I don't do anything after I've got up till I've had two cups of coffee. However a message like this one vacated my need for coffee.

I was dressed and in my car in less then a minute.

He'd bought a Glock with his tax refund and when he'd moved into his own house. I will not have a gun in my house.

It seems that he was emptying the weapon and kinda like the people in the news stories, there was still one in the chamber.

His went off, the bullet went in just above his left wrist and came out just above his elbow. He is left handed.

He was flown by helicopter and was very lucky that the bullet managed to not hit anything important. He has a nasty scar and has learned a very expensive lesson.

Ensuring that firearms are completely empty before putting them down or trying to do anything with them is so very important.

When I arrived at his house there were two PA State policemen there. I knew them from me working at the jail. They gave me the gun. I didn't give it back to my son till he found a buyer.

Ea.

[Gunny2862]

Eamonn, sorry your son found out the hard way.

 

Every weapon I have ever seen, I have treated as loaded until I cleared it, every time.

 

One of my High School Classmates, a really great guy, was already accepted into the military with a guaranteed law enforcement contract, a Police Cadet and at certain times under supervision was allowed to carry in uniform.

He was showing someone his sidearm having cleared it at his home and for some reason left the room, The individual in the room(not me) loaded and played with the weapon and like your son wasn't educated enough on the devices to understand that dropping the magazine doesn't clear the chamber. My classmate walked back into the room and found the weapon as he supposed he left it and did something dumb - it was the last thing he ever did. I have never forgotten the story. It, along with a lot of training, has been a cornerstone of Firearms safety in my life.

 

Education and an AWARENESS of what the devices are and what they do needs to be cultivated in those who have them in their lives.

 

I spent the day getting retrained on Range operations for BB Guns for Cub Scouts, and then went and assisted the RO for the Rifle Shooting MB. I helped with one shooter in particular and while he wound up not qualifying before I left(he couldn't get 5 consistent shots, was shooting 4 under a dime at the end but always threw one) but he had been starting with about 3 inch groups and shrank them nicely - I tell you about this shooter not because I helped him shrink his groups but because of the more important lesson... he had been consistently reloading with a finger on the trigger when I walked up - by the time I left he understood and had patterned indexing his finger nicely for three strings of fire after a few previous ones where he had had a slip or two.

 

I really enjoy helping them improve their marksmanship skills, but to me the important part of the Shooting Sports portion from Cub Scouts all the way up in Scouting is beginning as early as you can get them and imprinting a safety consciousness about firearms.

[le Voyageur]

hmmmmm....excessive headspace? firing pin set wrong? Receiver bedded to stock wrong? Weak firing pin spring? Extractor set wrong on the bolt face? Receiver not milled to spec's? Bullet's primer not seated correctly?

For myself, the first sign of any sticky bolt issue is to pull out the field gauge, and check for excessive headspace.

 

As for Remi 870 shotgun, my own experience with it, is that at least the one I own has never fired on it's own.(This message has been edited by le Voyageur)

[Gunny2862]

The Technical answer is here: http://www.gunsmiths.com/articledetail.php?id=87

 

The practical answer is still following basic gun safety precautions, with for this trigger system in particular the possible addition of ensuring the weapon is pointed in a safe direction not only at all times but especially when disengaging the safety.

[Gunny2862]

For something new - I thought this was going to be completely one-sided when I first saw it, this actually appears to be pretty balanced relatively objective coverage. Still stick to proper gun handling.

 

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/11/11148671-owners-of-some-remington-shotguns-rifles-claim-pattern-of-inadvertent-discharges

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

Your comments suggests to me that firearms deserve to be inspected and maintained by a competent expert on some regular basis to make sure the firearm is operating properly and receiving appropriate maintenance and repair.

 

Is this something that tends to be neglected by gun owners?

 

What kind of maintenance is commonly recommended by manufacturers, and who is authorized to perform that maintenance and inspection?

[nldscout]

Gunny,

 

This is exactly the article I commented on.

 

"Yerger had returned to his truck after dove hunting alone near his home. He says he leaned his shotgun--a Remington Sportsman 12--against the wheel well, with the safety on. As he tossed his gear into the back, the gun fell over and went off."

 

No one trained in proper gun safety leans a loaded gun against a vehicle, NEVER.

 

"He does not believe anything he did that day was wrong."

 

Really?

[Engineer61]

"Every weapon I have ever seen, I have treated as loaded until I cleared it, every time."

 

I treat them as loaded even when after that.

 

My Grandfather told me once that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. "Even if there's no bullets in it, it's still loaded with air."

[Gunny2862]

nldscout, Some people even when provided with video evidence of their wrong action, cannot admit to it. "It's somebody else's fault."

 

Some days folks make me think more than on other days... If it's okay to lean a loaded shotgun on the vehicle(it's not) - then why wouldn't it be okay to rest it on the fence while you cross it(it's not) - apples to apples...