Is the AHG truly a Scouting program??

[BadenP]

 

"We will now discuss the merits of the AHG as a scouting program." AHGnBSAMom

 

Trailing off from the previous thread to allow them to concentrate on their own seperate discussion, I found this quote from AHG Mom to be IMO simply absurd. AHG is NOT a scouting program by any stretch of the imagination, its main purpose, from their own website and literature, is to build a CHRISTIAN girls relationship with God and their church. They throw in a couple elements from the BSA program and some of their leaders think that makes them a "scouting organization".

 

A few Catholic scout unit leaders and forum posters feel that the AHG is a good fit for their cub packs as a partner group for the girls, and that is fine. Should the AHG be allowed to exsist and offer their program, of course they should. My only objection to the AHG is their pretense of being a "scouting" organization and manuevering themselves into a so called relationship with the BSA.

 

The reality is that the AHG is a very small group, and will continue to remain so IMO due mainly to their primarily religious focus and their exclusivity. National BSA may look at them as a neutral way to start the integration process of younger girls into scouting without having to change the BSA program as it now stands. In any case I still feel that the AHG passing itself off as a "scouting" organization is simply wrong and untrue. AHG would be better served IMO by building their own independent organizational structure instead of riding on the coat tails of the BSA.

 

 

 

[KC9DDI]

What is the definition of a true "Scouting program?"

[Eagle92]

BP,

 

oneof the funny things about Scouting in Europe is the multitude of Scouting organmizations within a country. Some have 2 or more and the associationcan be based upon language, religion, etc.

[SeattlePioneer]

Whine, whine, whine.

[BadenP]

SP

 

Your beligerance is better suited to the other AHG thread, this discussion is specifically for more open minded people,unlike youself, who may not think AHG is not the best match for the BSA.

 

Eagle92

What you say is indeed true but I am referring specifically to the BSA scouting program in the USA.

[SR540Beaver]

Baden: "AHG is NOT a scouting program by any stretch of the imagination, its main purpose, from their own website and literature, is to build a CHRISTIAN girls relationship with God and their church."

 

You left out a lot of other stuff in your biased opinion.

 

AHG Oath:

 

"I promise to love God,

Cherish my family,

Honor my country,

and Serve in my community."

 

AHG Mission:

 

"Building women of integrity through

service to God, family, community and country."

 

AHG Vision:

 

"American Heritage Girls is the premier national

character development organization for young women that

embraces Christian values and encourages family involvement."

 

AHG Creed:

 

As an American Heritage Girl, I promise to be:

Compassionate - Understanding others in fellowship, empathy, kindness, and caring. Respect others' opinions and emotions.

 

Helpful - Willingly serve others.

 

Honest - Always tell the truth and keep my promise.

 

Loyal - True to God, family, friends, community and country.

 

Perseverant - Continuing to strive toward a goal despite obstacles.

 

Pure - Keep my mind and body pure.

 

Resourceful - Wisely use my time, materials and talents.

 

Respectful - Honor my country, be obedient to those in authority and courteous to all.

 

Responsible - Accountable for my own actions. Reliable in all situations.

 

Reverent - Faithful and honoring to God. Respectful to the beliefs of others.

 

AHG Statement of Faith

 

American Heritage Girls is a Christ-centered leadership and

character development ministry.

The following Statement of Faith applies to all American Heritage Girls'

Charter Organizations, Adult Members and Adult Leaders.

 

"We believe that there is One Triune God Father, Jesus Christ His one and only Son, and the Holy Spirit Creator of the universe and eternally existent. We believe the Holy Scriptures (Old/New Testament) to be the inspired and authoritative Word of God. We believe each person is created in His image for the purpose of communing with and worshipping God. We believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit who enables us to live a Godly life. We believe that each individual is called to love the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength; and to love their neighbors as themselves. We believe that each individual is called to live a life of purity, service, stewardship and integrity."

 

Clarity is further provided to the following terms:

 

Purity An AHG member is called to live a life of holiness, being pure of heart, mind, word and deed, reserving sexual activity for the sanctity of marriage; marriage being a lifelong commitment before God between a man and a woman.

 

Service An AHG member is called to become a responsible member of their community and the world through selfless acts, which contribute to the welfare of others.

 

Stewardship An AHG member is called to use their God given time, talents and money wisely.

 

Integrity An AHG member is called to live a moral life, demonstrating the inward motivation to do what is right, regardless of the cost.

 

Note that the BSA mission statement says nothing about scouting.

 

BSA Mission Statement

 

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

The truth is, both progams use the outdoors as the medium in which they teach their principles.

[BadenP]

SR540

 

1 That quote was directly from AHGMom in the other thread, not my opinion but hers' okay.

 

2 My comment to SP goes double for you.

 

3 All the AHG's religious agenda you refer to is why IMO AHG does not belong in a relationship with the BSA, it is not in any way a scout like or a scouting program, rather it is nothing more than a slanted religious propaganda machine.

 

Have a nice day!

[Peregrinator]

New member here.

 

I'm not sure what it is about the AHG program that makes it not a scouting program. Please note - I don't have any experience with them and they're not exactly my cup of tea - I'm just wondering what it is about them that disqualifies them from being a scouting organization.

 

As far as size is concerned they claim 18,000 members (at least according to Wikipedia). That's as large as some of the major European scouting organizations (at least at the national level). Of course they are tiny in comparison to the BSA or GSUSA, each of which has millions of members. On the other hand, they are large in comparison to, say, the BPSA in the U.S.

 

It may well be that they are not a good match for the BSA.

 

But none of these things means that they are not a scouting organization -- not their size, not their religious dimension, and not whether they are a good partner for the BSA.

 

As I mentioned above, the AHG is not my cup of tea, for two reasons: (1) I think if one is going to have a religious scouting program, one shouldn't be ecumenical -- a group ought to be *all* Catholic, or *all* Protestant, etc. and (2) I don't like their emphasis on being specifically American.

[SR540Beaver]

Well Baden, if you'll note, I was taking exception to YOUR comment and provided evidence from the AHG website as to what is actually in their Oath, mission, creed, etc. This whole ragging on the AHG you do sure seems to be an odd bur under the saddle of a Christian minister. You said, "its main purpose, from their own website and literature, is to build a CHRISTIAN girls relationship with God and their church." I showed you from their website where they do far more than that with their expectation of duty to family, country and community as well as God. And they do it in part thru an outdoor program. Certainly you have no objections to community service or camping, do you? It sounds like they want to help develop well rounded young women thru duty to God and country, self and others. They are simply more specific in duty to God than BSA is. No one is forced to join the AHG. It is simply one alternative organization.

[Scoutfish]

What exactly is a scout anyways?

 

" scout/skout/Noun: A soldier or other person sent out ahead of a main force so as to gather information about the enemy's position, strength, or movements.

 

Verb: Make a search for someone or something in various places. "

 

Accoriding to the definitions above from dictionary.com, BSA is not scouting or a scouting program either.

 

But to say : " but I am referring specifically to the BSA scouting program in the USA. "

 

Is the same as saying: "Does it meet my own personal defintion of what I consider to be scouting? "

 

But using the verb of scoutingf, I would say that: YES! AHG is a scouting organazation by the definition and by THIER views.

 

Here's my question: Why the big ole fight against AHG? nWhy does it get under you skin so bad? Why is it so personal to you?

If you don't like it, don't be a part of it? Why insult everybody who has a different opinion of you? That isn't reflective our BSA's scouting program either!

 

[MomWhoCamps]

BadenP,

Not sure where you got the quote from me, since I can't find it. Not saying that I didn't write it somewhere at some point, but I am saying I can't find it. What I can find is this:

 

"Now, I'm going to start a new thread on AHG's Program in Open Discussion, for anyone who's interested."

 

...and this: "I've been having some issues with starting a new thread, but really think it's worthwhile to talk about the scouting program offered by AHG, so here you go: This is a new thread for discussing AHG and its merits as a scouting program."

 

I'm still waiting for answers on the other thread to questions regarding AHG theology. I imagine I'm going to be waiting for a long time. :-)

 

Since you have started the new thread for me, I would love to discuss AHG's merits as a scouting program. I'm going to copy my post in other thread to this one, as it appears to me that many may be reading about AHG for the first time, and, as far as I can tell, I'm the only one on the board with first hand experience with the program. Hopefully, the post is informative:

 

As I said in the other thread, my daughter and I stumbled upon AHG when we were on a local camping trip with a few families from our church. A large group of AHGers were camping not far from us, and appeared to be having a great time. I had heard that the program emphasis of GSUSA had swung away from classic scouting activities such as camping, canoeing, hiking, and the like, toward career exploration and other more modern activities. Since my daughter was purely interested in the outdoor aspects of scouting, I decided to look at AHG. The first thing I noticed about AHG was the troop structure. AHG troops are comprised of girls 5-18 years old, so there are a lot of opportunities for older girls to mentor and lead younger ones, as well as for younger ones to have older girl role models. In fact, one of the first troop activities that we did was a merit badge sleep over that was hosted by the troop's Patriot (9-12 grades) girls for the Tenderheart girls (1-3 grades). The older girls put together the entire event, and kept the little ones engaged the whole night. Everyone had a blast and the little girls earned a merit badge (Freedom's Heroes -- focused on learning about the U.S. military) while the older girls checked off some organizing/leading events requirements for their advancement. Our troop camps a few times a year, and the frequency depends on age group. The older girls camp more often and in tents, while the youngers camp a couple of times a year, and stay in cabins nearby. The ones in the middle do a little of both. I've also found that the parents, by and large, are very involved in the program. As a leader of my daughter's Tenderheart unit, I never have any shortage of assistance from parent volunteers. I think that this may be because, as a smaller organization, AHG is a little harder to find, so the parents are generally there as the result of a lot of research time spent looking for the "right" program for their daughter. It's just a theory, but I've found that the parents are very invested in the program. Thus far, my daughter has completed the Freedom's Heroes, Cake Decorating, Our Flag, Skiing & Snowboarding, Social Skills & Etiquette, and Needle Arts badges, and is working on the Textile Arts, Nature & Wildlife, and Young Meteorologist badges. She's having a blast!

 

Peregrinator,

Great post. Agreed that AHG isn't for everyone. I think there are few organizations that are for everyone. The ironic part about the AHG discussion thus far is that it hasn't focused on the actual program aspect of the program, but rather the politics of the relationship with BSA, which I'm all for, but can understand why some people may not be.

 

I'm open to answering any questions about the program, and I'd be very interested in learning your opinions on the necessary components of a "true" scouting organization.

 

[BadenP]

AHG Mom

 

I am leaving your thread alone I ask you please do the same, that quote IS directly from you in the other thread.

 

Scoutfish- a program as defined in the BSA programming materials, handbooks, etc. not your own personal erroneous interpretations much like AHGMom's.

 

ONE MORE TIME!!! The AHG is a solely religious program that specifically excludes certain people from the membership, based on their own website etc,. Its primary mission is to promote their own peculiar brand of Christianity, it is not in any way shape or form an outdoor oriented program teaching outdoor skills or developing leadership or good citizenship. In spite of diguising itself in a few scoutlike trappings, its primary focus is indoctrination of young girls into a type of Christianity that looks down on non Christians as inferior. It is a biased entity that the BSA should avoid any affiliation with them.

[qwazse]

Ya AnBMom,

 

If I had stumbled across an AHG troop when my daughter was that age, we probably would have signed on. It was a long wait for her to turn 14.

 

But then again, I'm not too bothered by indoctrinations by fundamentalists of any persuasion.

 

Youth led + smiles on their faces + age appropriate challenges = scouting.

 

Now the real challenge will be down the road when the likes of your daughter take the helm of their program in this post-modern society. Will they buy into the reasoning of the BP's of the world? Or, will they feel that the anchoring squarely in the Christian camp served them too well to set aside?

 

Regardless of what is concluded, if it's the young adults haggling over those tough questions, then it's a scouting organization. If it's an "old guard", then it's something else.

 

So my answer: time will tell ...

 

 

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forums, Peregrinator. Normally, this welcome would have come immediately from nearly everyone you are reading here. But sadly, it seems more important to snipe at each other and basically...to fail to cover ourselves with glory. So I am here to say, Welcome. I hope your experience is a good one.

 

At first I was tempted to move this to Open Discussion - Program. But I quickly saw that error. Play on...

 

[Rooster7]

IMO, AHG is a Scouting program comparable to the BSAs. They emphasize:

 

Life Skill enhancement

through multi-level achievement badge program.

 

Girl leadership

opportunities at all levels of programming.

 

Developing teamwork and building confidence

through varied outdoor experiences.

 

Character development

through community service and citizenship programs.

 

Social development

through organized Special Events.

 

Spiritual development

through religious awards program.

 

Call me crazy, but they seem very comparable to the BSA. Regardless of what their website may or may not say, Ive seen one troop in action and they mirror the BSA in many ways. In fact, many if not most of their leaders are BSA leaders and/or have boys in the BSA.

 

Faith is important. But its not pushed at every opportunity as some would have you believe. And IMO, the impetus and popularity of the AHG is the result of a poorly run GSUSA program which emphasizes feminists issues more so than teamwork, leadership ability, traditional values, and life skills offered by the BSA.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)