Common rule misunderstandings taught by district

[dan]

packsaddle

If a scout is not required to wear a uniform, how can you tell a scout what to wear?

And I have never seen anything in writing in any BSA publication. Tell me where to find it in a offical BSA publication and I will not call it a myth. I remember the thread, but there was no info where to find this in any BSA books.

I have been taught that hats only have to be removed in church and dining halls!? But growing up I was taught to remove hats inside any building.

 

[packsaddle]

Dan, I was taught the same thing about hats. And those baseball caps are practically part of they boys' bodies at times. I was actually hoping you could lay the uniform vs camo thing to rest for me. But if any professional scouters out there know the answer, I'd like to know too.

[dan]

from the SM handbook

 

In accordance with the provisions of the Boy Scout of America congressional charter, any imitation of United States Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps uniforms is prohibted.

 

As I have learned from this forum, you are either in uniform or your not.

If you have on a Scout Shirt and blue jeans you are out of uniform, if you have on a scout shirt and camo pants you are out of uniform.

[EagleWB]

packsaddle, I'm not sure why the ban on liquid fuels. The only answer I get is that the board did it and it probably is liability. They expect us to use propane stoves and lanterns. This ban has been in effect since before I started.

[Bob White]

imascouter,

Your original post actual refers to two myths one is that you must wear a Class A uniform when traveling, and two that there is somrthing in Boy Scouting called a Class A uniform (a term which does not exist in the official resources of the BSA.

 

Nowhere does the BSA require that a scout be in uniform to be covered by the BSA supplied accident insurance.

 

The uniforms of the BSa include the Field uniform, the Activity uniform, and the dress uniform. No A, B, or C uniform is described or identified by the BSA.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Bob White

[SR540Beaver]

BobWhite,

 

I know you have probably answered this at least a few thousand times here in the forums, but please indulge me. I know what the BSA uniform consists of. The hat, necercheif, slide, shirt (long and short), web belt and buckle, pants (long and short) and socks (long and short). So, what is the difference between the official BSA Field uniform, Activity uniform, and the Dress uniform? It sounds like three different uniforms with official uniforming codes.

[jbroganjr]

Here's a couple more urban legends.

No Sheath Knifes - GSS says so, actuallyit says that sheath knives are discouraged.

There is a length requirement on knives - again, no such animal

You must have a whittlin chip (cubs) or a totin chit (boyscouts) to carry a knife - No you don't need either to carry a knife in scouts and both are not "advancement" of rank.

An eagle project must have at least 100 hours of combined service - there is no minimum of time on an eagle project

You must complete all required merit badges before starting an eagle project - No you don't

An eagle candidate must proof leadership by being the SPL at some time during his scouting tenure (More stuff from misinformed, agenda minded adults)

 

You can't earn any MB until your a first class scout - (More meadow muffins)

 

You must take the new scout course at summer camp! (nonsense)

 

Partial MB cards are only good for one year

 

You must be 14 to climb a rock wall, indoor wall, any type of climbing (I guess these folks never viewed tiger cubs in action, those boys can climb anything)

 

MB and rank are only given at boards of review (personally witnessed this hogwash in my own troop, it changed just to shut me up - immediate recognition is vital to rewarding our youth - my argument "We will wait until the company picnic or XMas party before instituting your raise")

 

All scouting prayers have to be non denominational (No, but non denominational services are a part of scouting, but non denominational prayers? what church or synagogue do i get those from?)

 

If I don't like the way you did your job, then your tenure as a (insert any leadership position) does not count ( This is one I have heard and seen in action and is not allowed. It only shows at SM is not aware of the boys in his troop or doesn't have the courage to step in and either remove or find out what the problem is in the first place)

 

No songs that reference any body function or poke fun at specific groups are allowed ever (Not true, there are no "Banned Songs or Skits" )

 

There is way to much of this stuff in scouts today, why, I don't really know, but I surmise that it goes hand in hand with the lessoning of fun and the dumbing down of the program.

And this shows Nationally. the National Commissioner was up our way a couple weeks back and there was a lot of talk about the diminishing numbers in cubscouts (down 5%) and boyscouts (down about 7%), though this is overlooked as the overall registrations are up (Learning for Life and Venture).

Venture used to be the Boy Scout Program, years ago. But we constantly dumb down our strong points.

My personal urban myth gripe is "You have to be a trained professional to do any exciting, daring stuff" actually no, you do have to know what you are doing, but a professional? I don't think so.

I would love to have a copy of this thesis you are writing

 

As to the absurdity of liquid fuels, at the disappointing wood badge course that I took last year, there was a training module of 45 minutes devoted to backpacking stoves. However, no one was allowed to have fuel, fill the stoves nor light them, but at the end, everyone was "qualified" in backpacking stoves. Yep that qualification will come in real handy when: you over prime the stove, you first realize that some of those stoves sound and move like jet engines, three, that the smallness of the stove in relation to the big pot only go to prove Newtons Laws of Gravity, as the meal topples over just as it is done cooking.

Four, you store that fuel bottle in your back pack and it wicks all over your clothes, and finally - "You mean there are adjustable and breakable parts in this thing?"

 

tx

J

[Eamonn]

I have given some thought to some of the things that you said, and like it or not anyone who presents a BSA, is to follow the syllabus.

There is no shame in saying "I don't know." Or "I will look that up and get back to you."

In cases where the BSA rules and regulations are not clear, there is always the Scout Exec.

You might want to get a copy of: Rules And Regulations of the Boy Scouts Of America (57-492)and a copy of Charter and Bylaws Of The Boy Scouts Of America(57-491)

If you go to Article VII. Youth Members

General Classifications. Section 1.

You will find in Clause 1. A description of the requirements to be an active youth member.

It does not mention a word about a uniform.

[OldGreyEagle]

And yet uniforms are one of the 8 methods of scouting...

[packsaddle]

jbroganjr, Yep, I've heard a lot of those too. And I cringed when I read your rendition of the wood badge experience. But, just to lighten things a little, try not to be too concerned with 'dumbing down' issues. Or as my wife often reminds me (really often), when applied to males (especially those of us afflicted with testosterone poisoning) 'dumbing down' is at best redundant, perhaps impossible.

[SR540Beaver]

Pack,

 

Your wife sounds as MEAN as mine! I have to ask her permission to take my knife out of my pocket. She says I cut myself everytime I do! LOL Someday......that totin' chip is gonna be mine!

[packsaddle]

Well mine let's me use my knife anytime I want. What the...?! I think I just figured out why.

[Bob White]

Here is another way to look at a couple of the frustrations raised in these discussions.

 

First the easy one, use of liquid fuels on BSA council properties.

 

Just as some campgrounds prohibit the use of liquid fuels so do some council properties. Why does it vary from council to council? Because each council is a separate corporate entity and is responsible for their individual property management and insurance protection. The ban against liquid fuels is generated by the conditions of the property insurance carrier. There are strict guideleines for the storage of liquid fuels and most scout units do not follow them. In order to insure the council properties and satisfy the insuarance provider those councils have no choice but to prohibit the use of liquid fuels.

 

Uniforms. OGE correctly states that the uniform is a method of scouting but not a requirement of scouting. But that is true of every method of our program. Scouts are not required to elect leaders or face punishment. They are not required to to use the patrol method or facce punishment, they are not required to go outdoors or face punishment.

 

The methods of scouting are not about what the boy is supposed to do, they are about the tools we as adults are supposed to use to reach the aims, and achieve the methods of the scouting program.

 

We are supposed to encourage, inspire and motivate the scout into the wearing of the uniform because it helps promote the aims of the program. The uniform develops a sense of belonging to a community (citizenship), it allows people to see past personal prejudice based on income, age, fashion, etc and see a fellow scout (character). The uniform correctly worn gives a scout a personal sense of accomplishment and self-worth (mental fitness). It develops a sense of personal image and good groomong (physical fitness).

 

So you see wearing the uniform, and wearing it correctly, needs to be a personal choice not a mandate. It reflects the youth's (and the adult's)ability to make an ethical decision based on the the scout law (trustworthy, loyal, obedient, clean).

 

It is not about looking like a scout, it is about living like a scout.

 

By the way the advancement policy does state that a scout appearing for a Board of Reveiw should wear as complete a uniform as he can.

 

Hope this helps to bring a new vantage point to this.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[packsaddle]

BW, Total agreement on uniforms. And while I understand the genesis of the limit on liquid fuel use, councils must also understand that troops and boys ARE going to use them anyway...in spite of any prohibition.

 

>In the middle of the night we heard, "whoooosh,... whooosh,... whoooosh" and as the sky brightened over and over, we realized that the boys in the next troop over had discovered the white gas..and its effect on their camp fire.<

 

It seems that responsibility for the real training in fire safety and liquid fuel use probably falls to the troop and leaders. I wonder if a council prohibition limits liability if someone violates it anyway and then gets hurt. Is NJscouter out there anywhere?

[KoreaScouter]

I'm seeing two different points in here on liquid fuel, and want to attempt to clarify something (although I may just confuse things more).

 

Some posters have suggested there's a general ban on liquid fuel stoves. Of course, that's not true. The G2SS does have rules and recommendations on how and where to refuel, place the stoves in relation to your tents, storage, cooling, and so on. But, it doesn't prohibit their use.

 

Some are saying their councils don't permit liquid fuel stoves; I'd like to know which ones.

 

Now, the G2SS is very clear on no liquid fuels to be used to start fires. What that means, obviously, is lighting charcoal or wood with a can of charcoal starter. What we end up doing is priming the coals with a handful of match-light, and piling the kingsford on top of it...works okay.

 

KS