Common rule misunderstandings taught by district

[imascouter]

I am currently working on a training document and one point I am trying to make is that not everything you hear from scout leaders, even district trainers, is correct. Much of it is what someone else told them, heresay, and that new leaders should also refer to manuals.

 

To make my point, I would like to point out an example of a common misconception of the rules that is frequently taught by district leadership.

 

A while back there was a discussion about if it was really a rule that you had to wear class A when traveling to and from events. I would like to find that thread again, or information about it. Most everyone knows this rule and would be surprized to see it proved wrong. (I think it is a good IDEA, but not actually a rule.)

 

Where can I find this?

[SR540Beaver]

I won't be much help since I can't quote chapter and verse like others do here. But how can wearing a Class A during travel be a rule when wearing a uniform isn't a rule? BSA dictates what is an "official" uniform, but does not require a scout to have a uniform due to financial considerations. They highly encourage scouts to have uniforms, but do not require a scout to own or wear one in order to be in scouting. Therefore, if a scout can't afford a uniform, how can he be required to wear it while traveling?

[Eagledad]

Hi All

One common misconception that comes to mind is many of the Scoutmasters in our District sign merit badge cards after the scouts completed the requirements. Policy is the SM signs it before the scout calls and meets the counselor.

 

Barry

[SR540Beaver]

This thread has to do with one of those "I heard this is a rule, is it true" stories:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=26790#id_26865

[FScouter]

Another "fact" one hears in our district is that you are not covered by the BSA insurance unless the the uniform is worn! That is the "reason why" it must be worn while traveling!

 

The general rule I use is if the "rule" is not printed in an official BSA publication, it is not a rule.

[Twocubdad]

Here's one I'm still trying to run down: Youth Protection training is good for only two years.

 

It's an article of faith around here. Even to the point that some trainers hand write "Expires on" dates on the training cards. But no one is able to find it printed anywhere. The best any has been able to do is that national required Youth Protection within the past two years for those applying to Jamboree staff.

[imascouter]

I found the link this morning:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=23583#id_23608

Thanks for your help.

Of course my interest is piqued regarding YPT for 2 years also.

[EagleWB]

YPT is good for life, same as SM Leader Specific training. It is recommended that you retake training every three years or when things change, but not required. One of the problems we have are with rules our Council has, as opposed to National. Our Council does not permit liquid fuel stoves or lanterns at their camps except for training purposes. We try to explain this is a Council rule but many adults don't see the difference. There are some Council rules that are different from National rules.

[SR540Beaver]

EagleWB,

 

Your council's rule on stoves and lanterns only allowed at camp for training purposes begs this question.......if they are not allowed in council camps, why bother with training for them?

[OldGreyEagle]

Because you may use them while camping in state, nat'l or private campgrounsd?

[Eamonn]

I'm not sure what the term district trainers means?

Maybe there are some lucky councils, that have members that only wear one hat. We only have one person in our council that does that. He is our council Boy Scout Training Chair.

Being a small council, we have a mixed bag of who does what when it comes to training.

The Fast Track, while presented at the Unit Level, is under the District Training Chair. He or She is to ensure that each unit has the up to date tapes and the guide.

New Leader Essentials, is again presented at the District Level, under the direction of the District Training Chair. Some have a team that they use all the time and others try to bring more people in and have them present the training.

Cub Scout Leader Specific Training, Webelos Leader Outdoor Training,Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation, all come under the District Cub Scout Training Chair. Working with the District Training Chair. They recruit a staff, from the district who will present these trainings. They work hand in hand with the Council Cub Scout Training Chair, and the Council Training Committee.

Pow Wow, is the job of the Council Cub Scout Training Chair.

Round Tables are a service of the Commissioner Staff,who may at times call on the training committee for help.

Boy Sout Training, is mainly managed at the Council level, due to there being smaller numbers. With the Troop Committee Training done by the District Boy Scout Training Chair.

As the Council Training Chair, I really want to bring as many people to help with training as possible.

They are asked to present what is in the Syllabus.

They are not, in fact none of us are experts. As I say they if they are doing the job right will stick to the syllabus, which has the correct information in it. They ought not add or leave any thing out, just present what is there.

When it comes to a question like yours, which by the way I don't have the "Offical BSA answer" to you are best served asking one of the professionals in your council.

I do have an opinion.

My thoughts would be that they do not have to wear the uniform, depending on what the activity was and where t was being held.

You Make A REALLY GREAT PIONT -"REFER TO THE MANUALS"

[EagleWB]

kwc57, because many of our Troops do backpacking, canoeing and other high adventure trips where these stoves can be used. We feel that since they are allowed by National we should make sure they are included in our training.

[imascouter]

Thanks for all the responses, I knew I could depend on all of you. In my article, I intend to cite this forum as one of my top three sources of excellent information. (Between actual manuals and networking with leaders at Roundtable.)

 

To respond to a few here:

KWC57 Funny you should mention it, I am writing about uniforming and will be looking for one of the annual forum discussions about whether a uniform is required next.

FScouter The "travel in class A" was the actual rule I was looking for in my original post. Yes, I think it is accepted as "fact" most everywhere.

Eamonn My phrase "district trainers" refers to the "staff" or regular volunteers of the District Training Chairman. I consider anyone who works two or more training events as staff each year as a "trainer."

 

Case in point: I am guilty of having passed along hearsay as fact myself. I have told the YP every two years "rule," and the uniform in travel "rule." There may be one or two I am telling that I don't even know are not rules yet.

 

It has not been a "stick to the syllabus" issue. It is common for new Scouters to ask questions of those whom they perceive as knowledgeable. (snicker) Some of the questions (as many of you know) have nothing to do with the current training at hand. Good up-and-coming leaders try to gain as much knowledge as possible, and they gobble it up from every source available. My intent will echo what several here have said, "if it's not in print, it's not a rule."

 

Thanks for everyones input.

[dan]

Myths I have heard

 

Merit Badge Blue cards are only good for a year.

 

Camouflage is not allowed.

 

There is Class A and B uniforms. (imgaine a new scout or leader trying to look up what a Class A uniform is)

 

Father and Son(s) cannot share a tent.

 

You cannot go on a campout unless you are a registered leader.

 

You cannot salute the flag unless you are wearing you hat, because you are out of uniform.

 

Uniforms are required.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Dan, In another thread a URL was listed that provided a very persuasive argument about wearing camouflage. I'll try to find it, maybe you already know the thread. I would like to know your rationale for this 'myth'. In exchange, I'll give you one back:

Cell phones are fire hazards at gasoline pumps - fiction

Found the one on camo: http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/camo.htm

Cell phone: http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/articles/cellphone.htm

also http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/cellgas.htm

As for saluting, I thought hats were to be removed, out of respect, maybe I'm just thinking indoors.

As for MBs, until recently most troops in our area were under that wrong impression (some still are). I made myself unwelcome by informing everyone they had been working under a misconception. Evidently some of them really believed it but others used the 'rule' for their convenience.

 

EagleWB, I am troubled about the prohibition of liquid fuel stoves and lanterns. I understand the safety hazard these present but the leave-no-trace ethic nearly requires some form of fuel besides firewood. Can you expand on this a little more? Is this just a liability thing?

 

As for YPT, the question is moot in our area because every year or so they announce important changes and we get to do the same old stuff again. I ask about the changes and get brushed off..again.