American Heritage Girls

[BDPT00]

You started out just fine, but ended in hearsay again. Thanks for allowing me to believe what I want. It's clear we will never agree on this, and I'm happy with that. I'm going by what I know and by what I've seen myself. I'd encourage others to do likewise ... go and see.

BDPT00

[SeattlePioneer]

There another issue, too. I've heard repeated reports that Girl Scout staff often discourages men from participating as volunteers and program leaders.

 

IF that's true, isn't that rather gross discrimination against men that would justify rejection of GSUSA?

 

While GSUSA is famously accepting of lesbians, do they discriminate against male homosexuals or just male heterosexuals?

[Federalist]

As a father of two young daughters that love pretending to be Cub Scouts because it is so much fun for my son, my wife and I looked into Girl Scouts (naturally). We took our nine year old daughter to a troop meeting separately to get a sense of what they are about. My wife found that it had no direction or purpose at the couple of meetings she attended. So, I attended two meetings and found myself sitting alone with another dad while the mothers sat together and talked. The troop leader would not speak to me other than to ask, "Where is your wife?". When I sat with the mothers, there was silence.

 

So we tried another troop. The leader of this troop has a nose ring, bright red hair and is not very feminine. No problem with that, if that is what you want your daughter look to for guidance. I received the same non welcome feeling as the other troop. My daughter was also a little confused as to what they were supposed to do other than talk a lot and do crafts.

 

The American Heritage Girls website looked promising and even featured what looked like fathers interacting with their daughters. There is a strong emphasis on my families core beliefs, God, country, family and citizenship.

 

I think if the BSA loses anyone over a relationship with AHG, then it would be a small group of people that may not be fully adhering to the BSA's values anyway.

 

 

[BadenP]

SP

 

As a father of a former girl scout I sure would not want a male to be my girls troop leader, just as I believe women should not be SM's, not because they are not qualified, but young girls and boys need strong role models of their own sex as they struggle figuring out where they belong and how to behave in society. If you want to volunteer for the GSUSA there are plenty of other opportunities, working on special events or a myriad of projects, etc, which I did when my daughter was in the program. IMO why would any male even want to be a GS troop leader, even if their daughter is in the troop, that would be the last thing your own daughter would want.

 

Federalist

I think your whole premise is full of holes and totally innaccurate. As far as the AHG website is concerned, "beware of wolves in sheeps clothing."

[OldGreyEagle]

I am really not sure where the anti-female bias comes from in Scouting. It wasn't from the Founder Baden-Powell. Take this link to a page with several speeches recorded of B-P

 

http://www.thescoutingpages.org.uk/speeches.html

 

Listen to the second listed speech "B-P gives a talk to Scouts"

 

I love listening to him talk, and about the 3:05 mark you will hear him say the following:

 

"...We want more young men and even young women to come forward as Scoutmasters. There is work for all, and good work."

 

So apparently B-P was not so afraid of having Women Scoutmasters, perhaps we should not either

[momof2cubs]

OGE, I am a woman, and even though I complain about a certain disdain towards women volunteers, I think there might be some merit to what BadenP posted.

 

While one one hand, I'd hate to exclude many talented ladies, I DO think it is important for boys to have a strong role model in scouting. I think they are more likely to talk to a male CM and SM about certain issues; specially considering how many boys these days don't have a male role model at home.

 

i just got home form Spring Family Camping. This time around, we had a very small group (17 adults and 19 children). Only 5 ladies there. And I was thinking on the way back how 1950s we behaved as a group. The ladies cooked and cleaned. The men grilled and stoked the fire. The ladies attended to the injuries. The men led the boys during the fishing activities and set up the tents. We didn't plan it that way, it just sorta happened.

 

Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you revert to established roles.

[Scoutfish]

Well, I don't have an issue with AHg either way, and I'll tell you 2 reasons why:

 

1) I don't have a daughter, so it's a non issue as that is concerned.

 

2) Even if my CO charters a AHG unit, it's not like they are going to come to my pack or troop and say: "Hand over your scout handbooks and leaders books because we are re-writting the entire program.

 

My CO has several units there: Pack, troop. crew, GS troop ( and yes, I know they are independant of the CO, but the CO allows them to use facilities and supports them - okay), and a youth group as well as church league soccer and basketball ( upward)

 

Peole take part in different ones for different reasons. And each one has it's own unique flavor and personality.

 

Another thing to think of is something every one of you is familair with, has commented opn, and probably even has experience with:

 

Each unit is it's own unit and not a clone of the next. Think about it: troop 123 might be true boy led. Troop 456 might be adult lead . Troop 321 might be a no camping troop that just sits at tables earning MB's and thinking of Eagle by age 13 while troop 654 might go camping 3 times a month and not really concern themselves with advancement or ever getting Eagle at all.

 

Pack 135 has parents who bring coolers of beer and eats ribeyes at every meal while pack camping and Pack 246 doesn't allow women to go camping with the pack and they only eat what they catch in primitive bamboo traps and snares.

 

Okay, each example is a bit exaggerated and extream, but you get where I am coming from?

 

Just because the one AHG unit you saw places emphasis on a particular thought, view or belief, does not mean all the rest do. And just because rthe head office declares that their reason for being is "X" does not mean every unit will enforce or push the same ideals or policies...just like every troop or pack does not follow or push BSA's ideal as they should.

 

 

 

Even churches of teh same denomination do not do everything exactly the same. Look at the Episcopal Church. They just about had a civil war amongst themselves over gay bishiops and preachers.

 

All were of teh same faith and denomination, but each church's collective opinion was based more on local, region and the people who make up that unit.

 

My pack is not like the pack down the street. I have worked hard to make our pack a fun place for boys who are learning to be responcible and good citizens without having to sit and be lectured all the time. We do fun stuff and we plan our program to blend what boys like and find exciting with what is in the handbooks.

 

We also have absorbed amost all of neighboring packs Bear and Wolf scouts because the boys would rather eat dirt than go to their meetings which are almost an identicle extension of school. They just sit and listen to a DL read out of a book and lecture.

 

So again, even though we are both units that are chartered to deliver a program that was designed and set up by BSA , and where all we have to do is go by a "script"....we are still two entirely differt units doing two entirely different things.

 

before they joined our pack, I bet you trhose parents thought every pack was like the one they went to.

 

So, my point is this: Just becausd AHG unit 123 does "this and pushed "that"...does not mean all of them are identicle. And no matter what their head office says they purpose is, the real purpose and agenda of each unit is decided by the Leaders if not the CO.

 

[Federalist]

BadenP, you are right, I know I had two poor experiences with Girl Scouts and do not believe it is representative of the whole. Next, I am not advocating AHG, I am just saying it looks promising from my point of view. Finally, I wish there was a parallel organization to BSA because I do not like the Girl Scouts as they are now.

[Tampa Turtle]

Baden brings up good points. We have all seen good and bad in Troops so maybe not all AHG is bad.

[Rooster7]

All -

Look and see for yourself. Don't believe the rhetoric woven through this thread. Investigate AHG on your own. Go visit a troop and ask some questions. Personally, I think you'll be pleased with the AHG organization.

 

[CHLees3rd]

BadenP,

 

I'm a Wood Badge-trained, Powder Horn-trained Eagle Scout with over 30 years in Scouting. I'm also a Girl Scout leader in my daughter's Girl Scout Brownie troop because I want her to have a great Scouting experience just like I did. Sure we have done the ridiculous cookie sales and fall product sales, but we have also sung songs and played games that I remember from my Cub Scout and Boy Scout days that they have not done or heard. We have also camped, hiked, cooked, done same orienteering, first aid, crafts, field trips, community service projects, international badges via WAGGGS, and international SWAPS via my contacts with Guiders and Scouters from around the world. Very few troops in my local area come close to doing the things my daughter's troop does, even the Senior and Ambassador troops. And even though I catch myself being a tad bit harder on my daughter at Girl Scout functions, she likes me being one of her leaders. She has told me so! That may very well change as she gets older, but it is nothing new for teenagers. I remember quite a few Boy Scouts when I was younger who didn't like their dads in our troop either.

 

Chazz Lees

[Trevorum]

AHG is a fine organization and they do a great job of providing a quality program to young girls. Of course they are explicitly exclusionary on the basis of religion. Non-Christian families are not welcome. Christian families who do not want their daughters to be exposed to other ways of thinking may be more comfortable with AHG.

 

On the other hand, GSUSA is also a fine organization and does an equally great - some would say even better - job of providing a quality character development program to young girls. Families who want to prepare their daughters to interact with a wide range of people as adults may find the GSUSA to be more nurturing.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

I might do just that. As a leader in a Cub Scout Pack chartered by a Catholic parish, it would be nice to have a parallel program for girls, who are tag alongs in the pack and somewhat neglected.

 

I'd be interested in seeing an AHG program to see what it's like and to see what I could learn, at a minimum. It might be possible to twin an AHG program with the current Cub Scout program.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Seattle, it is only your last sentence that gives me pause.

 

You know your pack and your Church better than me, of course. But why this emphasis on "twinning?" Isn't it possible that there are families in your current cub pack who are happy to see the AHG program exist but who do not want to be part of it, themselves? Why force this issue? Why not be content to say "hey, the church has an AHG program, if anybody with daughters is interested" and leave it there?

 

Again, from my perspective: I have no problem with the AHG programs and wish them well as a stand-alone program. I can accept that a CO might sponsor both a cub pack and an AHG group.

 

BUT, as a scout leader and parent of a scout, I want nothing to do with them because I don't believe the same things they do and don't want my child taught what they teach. If a unit I served or that my son was in suddenly decided to "twin" with them, I'd be talking to the CO about it to get them detached again. If the CO was pushing this "twinning," I'd leave.

 

Do you really want to introduce that into your existing cub pack? And if so, why?

 

 

[BDPT00]

I think we need to stay away from the term twin. I think what was meant is nothing more than a pack and troop being chartered by the same CO. There would hopefully be an event or two during the year where there's some interaction, but the units are totally separate. I think that the pack and AHG troop (apropriate age group within the troop)could go to the zoo or science museum or a service project together. The older girls could also do something with the troop once or twice a year.

I don't see "twinning" meaning any more than that.

BDPT00