American Heritage Girls

[SMT224]

As a current BSA adult leader, and a past leader in the Girl Scouts and Cubs, I have worked with boys and girls from several different religions, including Islam, Buddhist, and all kinds of Christianity. All are welcome into the Scouting family because they have a belief in God or some kind of spiritual entity.

 

What concerns me about the AHG is that it appears that membership is limited to a pretty specific flavor of Christianity. What about the Muslim girls? Or the Mormon girls? Or girls whose family practices a different kind of Christianity? Do we have separate "Scouting" programs for every different religious brand out there?

 

Or do we bring all these different girls together to discover that despite their religious differences, they have significant common ground and really aren't as different as their parents and religious institutions make them out to be. I've seen friendship blossom under starry skies as the campfire crackles and girls come together as Scouts. To me, the laughter and smiles after a day of hiking and exploring nature is what it's all about, and can be as profoundly spiritual as anything in any church or sanctuary anywhere.

 

[kcshrader]

CalicoPen wrote:

To be a leader in AHG, you must be an American Citizen. You can delude yourself into thinking this isn't anti-immigrant, but I can't think of a better way to discourage immigrant families from joining than requiring leaders to be American citizens.

 

Actually, the stated requirement is "a legal resident of the United States". The document you originally cited is outdated and the language has been replaced.(This message has been edited by kcshrader)

[SR540Beaver]

Shortridge, so what? These kinds of organizations have existed for years. AHG is just the newest kid on the block.

 

http://www.pathfindersonline.org/html/about/about_pledge_law.htm

 

http://awana.org/on/demandware.store/Sites-Awana-Site/default/Default-Start

 

http://royalrangers.com/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiralScouts_International

 

http://www.royalambassadors.org/

 

http://www.wmu.com/index.php?q=children/ga/welcome-girls-action

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

SeattlePioneer writes:

>

 

 

Sorry. What does that comment mean?

 

Well, you managed to lump all secularists into what "the secularists" want (which includes people like e.g. Reverend Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State) which apparently includes hoping religion disappears altogether (a strange wish for a UCC Reverend), so I was wondering how you lump all Jews together.

[Oak Tree]

I didn't know that plagiarism was a Christian value!

 

I believe this has been done with the full knowledge and cooperation of the BSA. There is a memorandum of mutual support. http://www.scoutingnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mou_bsa_ahg_bw.pdf

[shortridge]

If an organization can't write its own application without help, that's a really sad little organization. Especially one purported to be the Second Coming of Scouting.

 

So what's the BSA get out of that MOU? Diddly, as far as I can tell.

 

I don't have a problem with AHG standing on its own. What I disagree with is how it has glommed on to BSA and tried to portray itself as the One True Faith when it comes to scouting for girls because of that MOU. I'd love to see the outcry if an Islamic group with an MOU tried to present itself as a full-fledged partner. I dare say AGH would be leading the charge.

[BadenP]

SR540

 

The difference was with those other organizations that they were NOT affiliated with the BSA, nor did they want to be. They were specifically started by certain religious groups who felt the BSA was open to too many "undesirable faith traditions" and did not want their children exposed to those beliefs. The AHG is in the same category. Just because they have linked to the Catholic Church and the BSA you give them much to much credit. The reason they did that was because their organizations membership was dying on the vine, now these associations with the Catholic Church and BSA supposedly give them more credibility. The reality is that even with these new partnerships their membership still remains very small, and IMO eventually they will disappear because of their exclusivity.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[BDPT00]

And I believe they will thrive for that same reason, however most of negativity I'm reading here is based upon false and misleading rumors, and I'd label it as either ignorance or prejudice; probably both.

BDPT00

[SR540Beaver]

BadenP - "The reality is that even with these new partnerships their membership still remains very small, and IMO eventually they will disappear because of their exclusivity."

 

Then you have nothing to worry or complain about, do you?

[qwazse]

If an organization can't write its own application without help, that's a really sad little organization.

 

Just because: BOY SCOUTS LOVE PAPERWORK

 

Doesn't mean everybody has to.

 

Membership Applications are not scholarly publications.

[BadenP]

BDPT

 

The only false rumors here is the propaganda you are spreading. I have gone through this AHG sham with my friends daughter and have seen first hand in their publications and the way the girls are instructed what a false organization it truly is. Their use of brainwashing techniques disguised as "Christian Love". What a crock. You better look deeper into the inner workings of the AHG, read their pub's, go to their meetings, you will see the truth for yourself. There was a very small AHG troop at a local Catholic Church in our area and my friend sent copies of their literature to the pastor. The next day the pastor personally told the AHG they were no longer welcomed at his church.

 

SR540

I agree AHG will soon be history, however with their new alliance with the Catholic Church I don't want to see them do any damage to Catholic girls duped by their elitist and racist literature.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[BDPT00]

Everything you've said about AHG has been false so far, so I don't know why I should believe what you just wrote. Are you going to tell us next that the leaders were dragged away in handcuffs? I don't buy any of it. Your conclusions and vitriolic statements about AHG are untrue, and I would encourage any reader not to believe a single word of it.

BDPT00

 

[SeattlePioneer]

The comments I see in this thread do not support claims that the writers expect AHG to disappear. It supports the theory that such writers are afraid it will GROW and be successful.

[lone77wulf]

I was going to stay out of this thread, but since the BSA's signing of the MOU has me about an inch from resigning my positions, I'll share some stories here.

 

Back when I worked in a National Supply shop, I worked at a satellite store in a strip mall. The council had the next unit over, with a secretary there for registrations and the like. The Council executive gave AHG's National Office a free lease to that space, since the council secretary only used a fraction of it. So, I got to witness a lot of things first hand.

 

First, Management from the NDC had to get involved with telling them in no uncertain terms that they could not buy restricted items (mainly merit badges) and were to stop copying program materials to pass off as their own. They were finally told that they could only buy unit numbers in terms of uniform items. From comments here, I see that their practice of copying is still happening, while other groups who attempt a non-BSA Boy Scouting are threatens with legal action.

 

Secondly, there were many times that the BSA secretary would be talking with a volunteer about something related to their daughters, and the AHG staff would jump into the conversation and start pushing AHG. There was an impression pushed by them they were a BSA partner, which at the time they were very much not (this is all pre-2004).

 

There was a big push by AHG to get a congressional charter, because they were convinced that it meant they would get funding. I know they sent a video in, but no clue what happened after that, but I don't think that they progressed past that in the process.

 

When AHG first started, they stated they were "Judeo-Christian". After one of their summer camps, a mother called their office demanding her money back due to her daughter feeling very uncomfortable at the camp due to her Jewish faith. They took out a lot of the "Judeo-Christian" references after that.

 

One of their National Staff members told a volunteer that too many girls were focused on college and career, and not enough on family, and that was something AHG was addressing.

 

AHG has every right to exist, as does the BSA and GSUSA. my issue is the BSA's blurring of the lines between the two organizations and the idea that units should do a lot together. The BSA is running a week of AHG training at PTC this summer, and promotes council's offering their camps and staff for AHG weeks at camp, something that hasn't been offered to other organizations before. With how non-transparent the BSA is with money, I wonder how subsidized these programs are.

 

As a program locally, it may be a good fit for some, but just as with any organization, you've got to look at it as a whole. The BSA seems to be taking a stance of "we dont care what you think" as part of the CSE's idea of making the BSA self-sufficient. That's a turn I don't like, and I think the AHG MOU is part of that concept.

[BadenP]

BDPT

 

Believe what you want, these were based on actual firsthand experiences with the AHG, my good friend and his daughter, who are devout Catholics, and talking to AHG leaders and the local priest, the results are a matter of record. Whether you like the results or not is irrelevant to the facts as they stand, so you can get off your sanctimonius high horse already. From what this priest told us other Catholic churches in the Diocese were receiving similiar complaints about the AHG.(This message has been edited by BadenP)