American Heritage Girls

[Nike]

My understanding of "twinning" is having both the pack and the girls' org do everything together except den/troop meetings, and even those might all occur at the same time but in different meeting rooms sometimes using the same meeting plans and materials.

 

With kids involved in so much these days, I can see how that would look attractive to parents. However, Cubs is for boys and AHG is ostensibly for girls. I would think that co-events should be few and far between.

 

Parents really need to ask themselves what they are looking for in a youth program. Efficieny is generally not an aim, goal or method in any of them. But we are a creative species, and we will make square pegs fit those blasted round holes.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

While your CO might support a single Girl Scout Troop, with giving the Troop a place to meet, and possibly even some financial support, the Girl Scout Troop is NOT "theirs". They do NOT OWN the Girl Scout Troop. The local Girl Scout Council is the body that owns that Troop (and it's funds and equipment). The Girl Scout Troop that your CO supports must follow the rules, regulations, and guidelines, of the GSUSA Council that owns them. Their program can NOT be adjusted, or manipulated, by the CO in order to reflect it's own values and mission.

 

The AHG program will not replace GSUSA because their base/focus is so very narrow. It is nowhere near as broad as a truly national organization's needs to be. The are a "niche" program only.

 

BTW, I too would look elsewhere for a BSA unit if my unit's CO chartered an AHG group. I would question that the CO's religious policies had turned toward a much more limited, and aggressive, direction, and would be concerned that those polices/views would affect their BSA program.

 

 

 

[qwazse]

I too would look elsewhere for a BSA unit if my unit's CO chartered an AHG group. I would question that the CO's religious policies had turned toward a much more limited, and aggressive, direction, and would be concerned that those polices/views would affect their BSA program.

 

Does your CO have a youth group a Sunday school class that invites non Christians? Maybe you should leave now!

 

If good people are pouring out love to my kids, then they've earned the right to preach religion to them. and if those kids want to race derby cars brothers and sisters together, that's fine by me.

 

Now if my CO harbored armed militias (history of clergy fomenting the Whiskey Rebellion doesn't count), I would consider relocating.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

[momof2cubs]

Several of you have stated how they feel AHG is "non-inclusive" due to their emphasis on religious beliefs. I think many (MANY!) people would argue that BSA is equally non-inclusive. While BSA might not focus on a specific religion, the Duty to God is VERY clear, meaning that atheists could be considered excluded. And let's not even talk about BSA's gay policy. Although as we have argued many times here, it doesn't seem to be actually written anywhere.

 

Not saying I agree, I'm just saying that from the outside looking in, BSA, AHG, and GSA could be considered non-inclusive of certain groups.

[Tampa Turtle]

Power of the marketplace; I think it is fine. I am a big supporter of the Girl Scouts but if it AHG gets more girls into scouting than I am all for it. My son says he only wants to marry a girl that wants to go on adventures with him.

 

Oaths are funny things. Recently I attended a presentation by christian pollster George Barna. I found it interesting that many "born again's" responses mirrored the general population. Only 74% believed in a God as defined in mainstream Christian theology (creator of the universe, all-knowing, currently exists). My take--a lot of people don't believe what they say they believe because their believes changes from moment to moment.

[Nike]

AHG got its start because they did feel culturally/morally excluded in GSUSA and were obviously not eligible for membership in BSA.

 

Yes, we are all exclusive to some degree or another, but we structure our missions, visions, programs, etc to be inclusive to a greater of lesser degree.

 

I'm somewhat suspicious of BSA's intentions toward AHG. Will the big-wigs in Texas promote the relationship until it no longer serves BSA's interests or are they in this for the long haul and mean to subsume AHG as a turn-key Girls' Division? Does anyone know BSA's record in this regard?

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

I don't want this to end up as an issues & politics thread so I'm going to sidestep the question of the BSA's member policies.

 

Scoutfish: By "twinning" I'm referring to what SeattlePioneer describes previously in the thread.

 

"It might well be that Cub Scout Packs will decide to charter AHG groups as well in order to offer twin program for both boys and girls.

 

At present, the hostility of Girl Scouts towards men pretty much precludes that kind of twinning, but an AHG-Cub Scout program might well benefit from such a twinned program. "

 

Leaving aside the issue of whether the pack, itself, could charter an AHG group (maybe more accurate to say the pack's CO) - since I don't hold with the AHG's approach to things, I wouldn't want to be part of a pack leadership that was tightly intertwined with an AHG group. It is one thing to be part of an organization that sponsors multiple groups independent of each other; another to be expected to be intertwined. A CO that expects that will probably also expect the Cub pack to be strongly religious (in a born-again Christian sense) in its emphasis, and that's simply not part of what I would look for in a cub pack.

 

They have a right to do it and the AHG have a right to run their program as they see fit - I just wouldn't want to be involved in it, is all.

 

 

[qwazse]

A CO that expects that will probably also expect the Cub pack to be strongly religious (in a born-again Christian sense) in its emphasis ...

 

That's not a forgone conclusion. Most of these programs get planted because a member of the CO feels that they should be doing something different that what already exists, and he/she scopes out existing programs and finds finds one that would "fill that gap". One group won't impose on the other. AHA's COR Jane wouldn't tell BSA's COR John how to do his ministry.

 

The CO may set minimum standards for both. But, they will probably insist that leaders bend over backwards to make the non-Christian in the group feel welcome. (E.g. our CO asks: be good, say grace before meals, do a voluntary "scouts own" devotional if you find yourselves out on a Sunday. No enforcement.) The reason is simple, they don't want running in the woods and carving box cars and even memorizing a few verses of scripture to be confounded with being counted as a member of their religion -- even though they would love if a slew of kids did any or all of those things under their roof.

 

Again that's the typical operation of most successful church boards, even ones that come from a hierarchical tradition.

[Jeffrey H]

AHG is a fine organization but has a distinctively different mission from the BSA. Both organizations are seperate but nothing wrong with working together on common ideals.

 

The BSA has a long history from the beginning of working with different faith groups both formally and informally. Nothing new here with the AHG.

 

The GSUSA is what it is and my daughter has chosen not be a part of them.

[CalicoPenn]

Boy Scouts: Popcorn and declaration of religious principles that are mostly winked and nodded at.

 

AHG: Anti-immigrant and statement of faith - oh, and incredibly small.

 

Girl Scouts: Girl Scout Cookies.

 

Advantage? Girl Scouts.

[BDPT00]

From where did the anti-immigrant thing come?

Incredibly small? Let's not forget growing incredibly fast.

 

AHG: Faith-based. Clearly stated ideals.

GSUSA: Cookies

Advantage? Girl Scouts??

 

BDPT00

[CalicoPenn]

"From where did the anti-immigrant thing come?"

 

To be a leader in AHG, you must be an American Citizen. You can delude yourself into thinking this isn't anti-immigrant, but I can't think of a better way to discourage immigrant families from joining than requiring leaders to be American citizens.

[shortridge]

"Well, your opinion obviously will affect nothing at all. The short answer appears to be that AHG and Cub Scouts both offer programs promoting traditional values. ... I could easily see the AHG as having a good prospect for growth based on superior organizational patterns and values."

 

And we've all seen how "traditional values" is a great rallying cry to attract young people. That "words to live by" marketing campaign really improved BSA's numbers, didn't it?

 

Good Scouting - true Scouting - spreads among the youth, through positive, fun, exciting programs. How many young kids do you know who say, sincerely, "I want to participate in a Christ-centered character-building program because I don't like the increasing secularism in our culture?"

 

[ crickets ]

 

As for the claims of its super-fast growth: AHG boasts of 18,000 members after 16 years (though it's not clear if those are all youth or include adults). But wait - let's contrast a bit here. At its 17-year mark (closest I could find), GSUSA reportedly had 200,000 members - in an age before email or social media made it easier to connect with like-minded people. So which grew faster?

[Scoutfish]

Never claimed that my CO owns the girl scout troop.

 

Just saying it has one. They have their own building at the church that my church owns and sets aside for the girl scout troop to use.

 

There is a bulliten board in the chucrh foyer dedicated to the girl scout troop that meets at my church. They reference my CO all the time when the girl scout troop puts notices or pictures in the local paper.

 

My CO has a girl scout troop wether they own it or not.

[BDPT00]

To be a leader in AHG, you must be an American Citizen. You can delude yourself into thinking this isn't anti-immigrant, but I can't think of a better way to discourage immigrant families from joining than requiring leaders to be American citizens.

 

*** Sorry you think I'm deluding myself, but your statement happens to be false. Don't know the source of you information, but here's the fact: One needs to be a legal resident.

Call that anti-immigrant if you wish, but I don't agree.

BDPT00