American Heritage Girls

[packsaddle]

SR540Beaver, I just asked my UU buddy who is a lay minister for the local fellowship about this. He responded with something about the council of nicea and the term 'heretic' being coined by Christians for those who reject the trinity.

So as you wrote, "Originally, all Unitarians were Christians who didn't believe in the Holy Trinity of God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), but in the unity, or single aspect, of God." and then, "Later, Unitarian beliefs stressed the importance of rational thinking, a direct relationship with God, and the humanity of Jesus." The 'humanity' of Jesus.

 

UUs reject the Trinity. They reject the divinity of Jesus. I have heard on numerous occasions...Christians proclaiming that UUs are atheists and anyone who is the friend of a UU "walks with Satan". I have to say that if any of this makes the UUs Christian, I'll just add that they also stress, as you say, "the importance of rational thinking." And THAT should just about do it.

 

They might have common origins but I'd have to say that they've diverged almost evolutionarily into something that around here, at least, gets rough treatment. I note that we also have common origins with chimpanzees...and I guess when I survey the cub scouts, I actually DO see the resemblance . But the only time I ever saw a boy get 'grilled' about religion at a BOR is when he confessed that he was Unitarian. Maybe you have had different experiences.

[MomWhoCamps]

So, now I'm really confused. In the early pages of this discussion, the anti-AHG (for lack of a better term) crowd was arguing that the AHG MMS was not unique, and simply one of hundreds that BSA has. They said that AHG was being deceptive in claiming a special partnership with BSA that they did not, in fact, have any claim to. Now, I'm understanding that the main objection appears to be with the closeness and unique partnership that BSA has entered into with AHG and the fact that the MMS might lend some credibility in the scouting world. Which one is it? Do they have a unique relationship, or not? If they don't, then what's the problem? If they do, then lay off the argument that AHG is distributing misleading claims about their relationship with BSA.

 

It makes me sad that people are seeing this as a zero-sum game. I still say that BSA has every right to partner with as many varied girls' organizations as they please. Their partnership with AHG does not preclude another partnership with GSUSA or another like organization, at least not that I'm aware.

 

As for AHG being religiously intolerant, I'll turn you to their website and the AHG Creed that I've cited earlier. Under "Reverent" you'll find a specific reference to respecting the beliefs of others as being a critical part of the "an American Heritage Girl is reverent" part of the Creed.

[BadenP]

AHGMom

 

It may say respect the beliefs of others it is just that they will not let them join AHG, in my book that is total disrespect. I would like them to print the truth about who they will let join and who will they not let join AHG. "Christian" is a broad generic term covering a wide range of denominations and beliefs, not all of whom could join the AHG.

 

 

SR540

Universal Unitarians do not consider themselves to be Christian but you should know that already, so your comment to me was not only in poor taste but totally irrelevant. I am an Ordained Christian Minister not UU who do not even use the terms Minister or Reverend regarding their leadership. Maybe you are the one who needs to do more research before spouting off.

[packsaddle]

BadenP, I think you are being a bit too hard on SR540Beaver. My comments were meant more as a correction than a criticism.

 

Anyway, I had to go to the website of the local fellowship to check my memory but there it was on the home page, the listing for: "Reverend 'so-and-so', Minister for 'this Fellowship'". Both of those terms used by the UUs in the same line on their home page. I have no idea what other UUA fellowships and churches do but I suspect that given that they value the individual worth of all people, there just might be an element of 'local option' among their fellowships, I could be wrong. But those titles are just terms, after all. No big deal...I'd worry more about it if they were called an Imperial Wizard or Royal Hatchet or something. No, actually if they did use those, THAT would be really interesting!

 

Edit: I just checked 6 other fellowships around this region and I can't find one that DOESN'T use the terms 'reverend' and 'minister'. I'll keep looking: it would be way cool to find an Imperial Wizard! (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[SR540Beaver]

Baden,

 

I already stated that I knew UU didn't consider themselves Christian when I told Pack "I realize that" in response to his comment. However, the UUA's own website says, "individual Unitarian Universalists may also identify with and draw inspiration from Atheism and Agnosticism, Buddhism, Christianity, Humanism, Judaism, Paganism, and other religious or philosophical traditions", so it is possible that UU folks could identify themselves by one of those labels. But you should already know that. Maybe you are the one who needs to do more research before spouting off.

 

UU does indeed use Minister, Reverend and even Pastor. But you should already know that. Maybe you are the one who needs to do more research before spouting off.

 

It's rich that with all the arrogant and condescending comments that you make to posters here that you find a simple question in poor taste.

 

All I wanted to know was where you are coming from since you say you are an ordained Christian Minister and Associate Pastor, yet find the AHG SOF to be pseudo-Christian. I don't know any mainstream Christian church that would take exception to it. I could possibly see UU having issues with it. That's why I asked. Me, I'm a Southern Baptist, a graduate of Oklahoma Baptist University with a degree in religion, a former youth minister, ordained Deacon and worked towards a Masters in Religious Education at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. That may all be pseudo-Christian to you, but most wouldn't agree with you.

 

Edited to add: BTW, a little research found the Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship, founded in 1945.

 

http://www.uuchristian.org/S_History.html(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

[SeattlePioneer]

The best part of the thread so far has been certain posters who have stridently maintained that AHG is extremist, intolerant and Bad Christians.

 

We have the classic case of the pots calling the kettle black.

 

I'm sorry to see the discussion mature in that way, but that's life.

 

The net result for me after pickling AHG in this brine for nearly 300 posts is that that they seem like a fine organization and a suitable partner for a Cub Scout pack that might want to have a program to offer girls.

 

In particular, they don't appear to have the prejudice against participation by men and fathers that appears to characterize GSUSA these days.

 

I was contacted by a pack leader in north Seattle that has that kind of arrangement, and I'd like to talk with him. And I'd plan to clear the idea with the head of the Seattle Archdiocese Catholic Committee on Scouting, although their website appears to endorse AHG. http://seattleoyyam.org/programs/catholic-scouting/catholic-committee-on-scouting

 

So checking out AHG in more detail seems like the right thing to do, but I see nothing in this discussion that is a reason to avoid AHG.

[packsaddle]

Do I need to point out how well this discussion is living up to that quote by TheScout?

[BadenP]

SR540

 

In response to your post I would not consider you to be a pseudo Christian, in fact last time I checked the Baptists were always welcoming and friendly to new people interested in their denomination, and I have personally worked with some very nice Baptist ministers in programs designed to help inner city at risk youth.

 

SP- Now who is the pot calling the kettle black? Look I could care less whether or not your church or pack or the BSA wants to work with or partner with the AHG, more power to you. IMO the AHG and the BSA are not a good match because of some of the AHG positions and exclusions. if Mazzucca and BSA National want to partner with AHG that is their decision, not yours or mine. So it would be nice to end this barrage of insults back and forth, as I am finished with commenting on this topic. I will just focus my energies on my venturing crew and you on your pack, because that is really what is the most important.

[OldGreyEagle]

And the inconsistentcy between what BadenP said

 

"...You may not know this but up through the 1960's the Catholic Church did not sponsor the BSA and told their membership that the BSA was to be avoided..."

 

and my personal and familial experience and the link posted by Rooster

 

http://www.catholicscouting.org/NCCS_History/NCCS_Chronology/nccs_chronology.html

 

Shall go unaddressed...

[MomWhoCamps]

That's ok, OldGreyEagle, BadenP never answered any of my direct questions, either: about the Statement of Faith, about the inconsistencies in his arguments, or about the Creed. Since he made a final allegation of inclusivity, I will again pull from the AHG website,

 

Who can be an American Heritage Girl?

Any girl, age 5 and in Kindergarten through age 18 can be an American Heritage Girl. Girls of all different backgrounds are welcome in AHG.

 

Who can be an AHG Volunteer?

An AHG volunteer must be at least 21 years of age and a citizen or legal resident of the United States. This candidate must have the willingness and desire to work with girls, parents and Troop Board. This candidate must subscribe to and affirm the Oath, Creed, Mission Statement, Statement of Faith and all other rules of AHG, Inc. This person needs good communication and human relations skills. This candidate must be a registered AHG member. This candidate must complete the Volunteer Application and adhere to reference and background checks along with the final approval of the Charter Organization.

 

Now, I'm going to start a new thread on AHG's Program in Open Discussion, for anyone who's interested.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello AHGnBSAMom,

 

 

Can you describe your own position(s) in AHG and BSA?

 

As I've noted earlier, I'm interested in offering an AHG program in conjunction with the existing Cub Pack in a unit chartered by a Catholic parish.

 

Do you have experience in how those two programs would work together?

[MomWhoCamps]

Seattle,

I'm one of six leaders for my 1st grade daughter's Tenderheart unit, comprising 30 girls. The unit is nominally broken into three squads of 10, with two leaders for each squad. As far as BSA goes, my screen name is hedging my bets. :-) My son is starting kindergarten in the fall, so he's not in scouts yet, but is literally counting the days until he can join Cub Scouts. I've heard that there is a kindergarten Cubs program being piloted in some councils, and I sure wish it was being added nationally for the fall! As far as some of the things I've heard being done are joint family camping trips, joint work on scouting for food, and joint pinewood derbies. Our troop participated in Scout Sunday with the Cub Scout Pack and Boy Scout Troop sponsored by the same CO, but we haven't done any other joint activities with them.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello AHGnBSAMom,

 

Do you prefer the relatively independent relationship between AHG and the Cub Pack you appear to have, or would you prefer a closer relationship?

 

How did your AHG group get started and what things have resulted in growth to it's present size?

 

 

[MomWhoCamps]

I've been having some issues with starting a new thread, but really think it's worthwhile to talk about the scouting program offered by AHG, so here you go:

 

This is a new thread for discussing AHG and its merits as a scouting program.

 

As I said in the other thread, my daughter and I stumbled upon AHG when we were on a local camping trip with a few families from our church. A large group of AHGers were camping not far from us, and appeared to be having a great time. I had heard that the program emphasis of GSUSA had swung away from classic scouting activities such as camping, canoeing, hiking, and the like, toward career exploration and other more modern activities. Since my daughter was purely interested in the outdoor aspects of scouting, I decided to look at AHG. The first thing I noticed about AHG was the troop structure. AHG troops are comprised of girls 5-18 years old, so there are a lot of opportunities for older girls to mentor and lead younger ones, as well as for younger ones to have older girl role models. In fact, one of the first troop activities that we did was a merit badge sleep over that was hosted by the troop's Patriot (9-12 grades) girls for the Tenderheart girls (1-3 grades). The older girls put together the entire event, and kept the little ones engaged the whole night. Everyone had a blast and the little girls earned a merit badge (Freedom's Heroes -- focused on learning about the U.S. military) while the older girls checked off some organizing/leading events requirements for their advancement. Our troop camps a few times a year, and the frequency depends on age group. The older girls camp more often and in tents, while the youngers camp a couple of times a year, and stay in cabins nearby. The ones in the middle do a little of both. I've also found that the parents, by and large, are very involved in the program. As a leader of my daughter's Tenderheart unit, I never have any shortage of assistance from parent volunteers. I think that this may be because, as a smaller organization, AHG is a little harder to find, so the parents are generally there as the result of a lot of research time spent looking for the "right" program for their daughter. It's just a theory, but I've found that the parents are very invested in the program. Thus far, my daughter has completed the Freedom's Heroes, Cake Decorating, Our Flag, Skiing & Snowboarding, Social Skills & Etiquette, and Needle Arts badges, and is working on the Textile Arts, Nature & Wildlife, and Young Meteorologist badges. She's having a blast!

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello AHGnBSAMom,

 

 

Sounds like you have a great program!

 

 

A few questions,

 

it sounds like you aren't associated with a Cub Scout Pack. Do you have boys who are tagalongs at meetings and activities, and if so what do you do with them?

 

With BSA, there is a sharp gap and distinction between age groups, the biggest being between Cub Scout Packs and Boy Scout Troops. There is usually a gulf between what older and younger boys can do, and usually older boys don't want to associate with younger boys. If older boys do get thrown together with younger boys, it can be hard on the younger boys.

 

It sounds like your girls are a lot more cooperative. Perhaps that's the nature of girls.

 

Do you have a sponsoring organization for your AHG group such as a church? Cub Scout and Boy Scout units have "chartered organizations" such as churches or community groups that provide meeting space and support for the program sometimes.