American Heritage Girls

[BDPT00]

I see what you're referring to. I'm sure it will be fixed (not to hide something, but to update something that needs updating). You're good at this computer stuff, and I thank you.

BDPT00

[BadenP]

BDPT

 

You saw some of the AHG's screwed up version of Christianity firsthand on their own website concerning leaders must be US Citizens and you immediately rush to their defense saying "I am sure they will fix that soon", when in fact that is exactly what they believe. You are presented with facts that conflict with your own but you still defend it. That is how cults indoctrinate new members, using the old razzle dazzle or bait and switch to confuse people as to their true beliefs and purpose. Now you have fallen for it much like SP and AHG Mom and I truly feel sorry for all of you.

[Scoutfish]

Baden,

 

I neither support or nor am I against AHG. I do not have a daughter and an AHg would not affect my son's experience in his troop.

 

Having said that, do you not allow for the possibility that it was just a simple mistake?

 

Look at BSA's websites. You ever see the Tiger Cub in Tiger Cub uniform that had ALL the ranks sewn to his shirt...... in the uniform guideline section of the website?

 

How about an inconsistancy in the G2SS? What is written in the printed paper edition isn't always the same as what is online.

 

Why? Simple mistakes. The person who sets up the website is not the sameperson who sets up copy for the books.

 

You know that Maccuza himself doesn't print or type online either. It coms down to an employee at a print shop or a tech guy typing on his desktop or laptop computer. Somebody who probably isn't in, necver was in nor has any children in scouting.

 

Again, not defending AHG because I support ity, just saying the change may not have anything to do with "being caught" doing something cultish..it could be there was just a genuine simple mistake that was caught, and they have since fixed that mistake.

 

Hell.....if it was up to the membvers of this site to print policy - you know how many mistakes, mistatements and rules that would be wrong?

 

It wouldn't mea that was how BSA felt, it would just mean that somebody misunderstod, misinterpreted a rule or was flat out just wrong in their understanding.

 

 

 

[shortridge]

I really don't want personal experience. I take what they say at face value, and that's it. Matter of fact, I can't get much personal experience with AHG - my daughter can't join, because she's Jewish and I don't want her to be preached at, and I can't volunteer, not being Christian myself.

 

If you don't allow legal immigrants to serve, as some of AHG's leadership forms still state and it's website stated until this week, that's anti-immigrant in my book. If AHG didn't realize the difference between citizenship and legal status, that's pure incompetence. So either way ...

[BDPT00]

Your daughter can join, but I understand why you wouldn't want her to. That's fine. Don't join. The anit-immigrant comments are clearly wrong. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the form you led me to last night changes soon. You're a computer guys. If you find an error on your site, do you just leave it, or do you fix it? Scoutfish is right. With sites as big as ours and theirs, there will always be edits. I'm sure they appreciate your pointing out an inconsistency. I think your overworked point regarding immigrants is dead. Do you think their organization would change a national policy just to make you happy? No. They're editing an error. Mybe they'll send a thank you note.

BDPT00

 

 

[shortridge]

A mistake would be a misspelling or a broken link. The citizenship policy is stated in multiple places, including several forms, and was on its main FAQ page for apparently a good amount of time. That's not an error.

 

It is against U.S. law to require employees to be citizens v. legal residents. That doesn't apply to volunteers, but apparently AHG believed until recently that citizens are superior to legal residents, disregarding the opinion of Congress. That's anti-immigrant to me. What reasons can you see to ban legal residents from volunteering?

[SR540Beaver]

Seriously folks? You're going to pick the resident alien nit as some big scandalous deal? One, they changed their wording, so you should be happy they aren't "excluding" resident aliens anymore. Two, so what if they were? That would be their choice just like excluding gays and athiests is BSA's choice......and look at how many people who disagree with that are still members. Organizations get to set their membership policies because it is perfectly legal and constitutional for them to do so.

 

Plus, I wonder just how many resident aliens are out there wanting to sign up. In my council, out of 5,000 adult volunteers, we had one Canadian who wasn't a US citizen. I imagine there are areas of the US where you would have a different ratio of 5,000 to 1, but I'm sure the number isn't huge.

 

I mean if that is the best that folks kind do to fault AHG, I'd say they are doing pretty good.

[BDPT00]

You seem really hung up on this anti-immigrant thing.

I'd be happy to dig a little to see what I can find out. I have no idea why it was the way it was, but I don't like to guess.

BDPT00

[Basementdweller]

So I am guessing that the National leadership of the AHG is reading this thread very carefully.

 

 

While I don't agree with the lesbian/feminist GSA leanings.......I also don't agree with the the AHG's far right swing.....

 

 

AHG lady was touting being permitted to attend BSA camps and attend BSA training.........Sorry to burst your bubble.. It is about money, they want your money..

 

Soon we will see a AHG week like we see LDS, Cub and Webleos weeks to fill up our empty camps.

[SeattlePioneer]

I do see some evidence of a satanic cult in this thread, but it's not AHG.

[Rooster7]

I know how an AHG troop works firsthand... not through some friend's experience or by reading some Internet article or by some other uninformed means. And I can tell you that 95% of the garbage spewed here on this thread is garbage. They are not far right. They don't have a secret agenda. They are not evangelistic in the sense that they do not actively preach to anyone. Interweaved in the program they will act out their faith. They support Judeo-Christian values and act accordingly, and they will say the occasional prayer (and yes, they do pray to the God of the Bible). But beyond that, theres no strong overt (or covert) effort to convert anyone to a particular brand of Christianity. Now, is it possible that some backwoods group is misusing the program? I dont know? Does that happen in the BSA? Note - that last question was facetious. Of course wherever and whenever people are involved - a program can be subjected to misinterpretation and abuse. That said. AHG is simply a Christian run program that seeks to provide outdoor fun and education to girls via a Scouting venue. Unfortunately, we live in a world where folks will parse things to death in order to achieve their own goals and/or to tear down others. And this thread is just another example of that.

[BadenP]

Rooster

 

You have seen it on their website, read it in their literature, and have had personal experience with a priest and bishop who have formally withdrawn all their ties with AHG in that diocese for their racist, elitist, and exclusionary beliefs and policies. This is not a witch hunt but a reality check for those who have fallen victim to AHG propaganda. Know what you are arguing about. I am betting none of you AHG supporters have actually read their adult leaders manual or their organizations mission and beliefs statements, I have and did not like what I read. It does NOT matter if you see their meetings as harmless fun what matters is the philosophy of the organization itself which is plainly racist and elitist, like it or not.

[packsaddle]

Are you guys ready yet, to move this discussion to I&P?

Y'all play nice now.

[SR540Beaver]

Pack, that sounds like an excellent idea.

 

Baden, I'd actually like to see you address AHGnBSAMom's comments and questions instead of making baseless accusations. Saying that you've read their materials and you know first hand doesn't really cut it. You're going to have to document your claims of propaganda and psuedo-Christianity if you want to be taken seriously. What specifically can you provide as evidence that a reasonable and objective person could look at and be convinced of your argument?

[shortridge]

SR540,

 

It's certainly not a scandalous deal. I just question why BSA partners with an organization that - judging by its own published materials and website - believes that legal residents who are not US citizens are not able to volunteer with their child's organization. BSA does not have a similar stance, so why is it OK for its self-declared special partner to do so?

 

To the bend-over-backwards apologists: That policy was enumerated several times on its website and in leadership forms. I've pointed them out so you can see for yourselves. That is not an error, but a planned, repeated policy decision.

 

That is only one of the many problems with AHG's relationship with BSA. Note I did not say a problem with AHG. That group is free to sink or swim on its own. But BSA should have no partnership with such a group.

 

BDPT,

 

Would you want your daughter joining a group of, say, Wiccan scouts who welcomed everyone but spent copious amounts of time talking about the Goddess while working on an astronomy badge? Your daughter is certainly free to join - but truly? Honestly? If a group goes against your family's religious values, you'd still be OK with her joining?

 

Pack: I don't agree with everything BadenP is saying, but there's no need to shut the thread down just because some people disagree.