American Heritage Girls

[Scoutfish]

" when many of our highly dedicated Scouting families who are non-Christian will see no benefit."

 

 

How so? If they are in the scouting family, then the can and will get that benefit from being in scouting.

 

 

" I bet there are many non-Christian Scouters who want a similar program for the daughters to join so that they get a great Scouting experience just like the sons."

 

I absolutely agree - there are many families that may want a program like that. Then all the have to do is do the same thing the people who created and founded AHg did: Make up a program that they like.

 

It's not BSA's responcibility to make sure another group opens their doors or develops something to suit everybody everywhere. Even BSA does not do that.

 

Suppose I start up a youth model rocket building and launching club. We meet at the local school playground every Saturday. Maybe the parents of model ship building children ask the school to make sure that I start building and sailing model ships so they can have a program for their kids too.

Then the RC car crowd wants in. Then the train club.

 

Should the school tell me that I ought to change my program to an all inclusive fun club?

 

 

Why should I? Why should I sudden;ly be responcible to placate and please every group of parents who want something for their kids?

 

It's not about scorning or denying others the ability to do something. It's about those with a common interest ( model rockets) getting toghether iover a common interest.

 

Remeber, just because BSA is making a somewhat partnership with AHG does not mean trhey are snubbing a nose at all other groups. BSA did not create AHG. But they recognize the value behind it, and recognize the similarities in some of the stuff.

[MomWhoCamps]

"I do not have a problem with the BSA and AHG having a MMS as the BSA has MMS's with other organizations; however, what I object to is the extreme lengths the BSA has gone to assist the AHG (such as the use of our YPT; a week long conference at Philmont; allowing Wood Badge attendance, etc.) when many of our highly dedicated Scouting families who are non-Christian will see no benefit. I bet there are many non-Christian Scouters who want a similar program for the daughters to join so that they get a great Scouting experience just like the sons. The AHG says that all are welcome, but does anyone know of any AHG troops that have a predominantly Jewish membership or Buddist or Islamic? Unfortunately, while this ready made girls' program might be a good fit for many in the BSA, the AHG is not a great fit for all in the BSA. If the BSA won't allow CO's the option to have co-ed troops, teams, and packs, then I just wish the BSA had been a bit braver and established it own girls' program to parallel the boys' program. That way each program would have had the same ideals making it a better option for all BSA members and not just the Christian members."

 

The above is probably one of the most cogent arguments that I've seen on this thread from the more anti-AHG crowd (or anti-AHG/BSA partnership crowd). Thanks to ChazzLee for that. I have had these thoughts myself. As a mom who would only half-heartedly have sent her daughters off to GSUSA if there weren't a good alternative, I have thought many times about how we are lucky that AHG offers a wonderful option that squares with our values, both social and religious. I do wish that other groups had similar options, and if BSA had it's own girls' program, you can bet that I would have signed my daughters up immediately.

 

[BadenP]

To all you Pro AHG Scouters

 

I just finished the GSUSA Centinnel book, which by the way was much better organized and better written than the BSA 100 year book, and it really hit home the point just how much we in the BSA truly share and have in common with the GSUSA. Just because they have made some program changes or some local changes some of you do not like doesn't mean we toss the whole organization aside and start pairing up with some radical evangelizing Christian group masquerading as a "girl scouting type of program". Like it or not the AHG's main goal/purpose is to promote their own exclusionary and elitist brand of Christianity to young girls. AHG's style of Pseudo-Christianity is CONTRARY to the teachings of Jesus and IMO sets a dangerous precedent if the BSA truly forms ANY kind of alliance with them.

 

There are some Catholic posters here who believe that since the Catholic Church has allied with the AHG that it gives them credibility. In reality I feel in time even the Catholic Church hierarchy will see the AHG for what it truly is and break all ties with them. The National BSA, especially CSE Mazzuca, really needs to do a much closer investigation of what the AHG truly is and what they believe before entering into any formal agreement with them.

[SR540Beaver]

As one of your so-called "Pseudo-Christians", I have my own doubts about your understanding of the teachings of Jesus as well.

[MomWhoCamps]

For what it's worth, and fully knowing that I'm about to be led down the garden path, I understand where BadenP is coming from. Christianity should not be exclusionary. I mean, Jesus spent a good deal of time with prostitutes, tax collectors, lepers, and other societal "undesirables." This is one of the things that drove the religious leaders of his time to distraction. So, Jesus certainly wasn't a model of exclusion on any level. The interesting part of BadenP's argument, however, is that he claims that AHG's primary purpose is to evangelize or proselytise Christianity to young girls, but then accuses the organization of being exclusionary. It would make sense that girls who are already Christian in faith cannot be evangelized or proselytized, so one would assume that the intention is to evangelize or proselytize to non-Christian girls. If this is the case, then it wouldn't make much sense for the organization to be exclusionary in nature...no one to whom to proselytize. So I'm wondering which one it is.

 

For the record, I don't believe AHG to be exclusionary or proselytizing. AHG's membership guidelines are pretty clear about the fact that any girl can join who is comfortable saying the Oath, "I promise to love God, cherish my family, honor my country, and serve in my community." As for adult leaders, it makes sense that any youth organization would endeavor to model its values through its adult leaders. For AHG, these values are Christian (it's a Christian organization). Thus, it would make sense for leaders to be Christian. Plus, in the event that it's not an exclusionary organization and the true intent is conversion and proselytizing of young girls, it would be hard for non-Christian leaders to do this, wouldn't it? It's enough to make you go hmmmmmm....

[SeattlePioneer]

Well Baden P,

 

You are certainly welcome to continue supporting GSUSA. I keep hearing negative things about them myself, including negative posts on this thread.

 

The negative things I've heard on this thread, such as that they are disapproved of by Catholic leaders, is not borne out by my investigations so far. Your speculations about what Catholic leaders will do in the future is swinging wildly.

 

I used the AHG website to make contact with an AHG unit leader at a Catholic parish in north Seattle. He called and e-mailed me but we haven't spoken yet. And yes, the AHG leader was a man. I will be interested in hearing about his experiences with AHG.

 

I am a Chartered Organization Rep for a Cub Scout Pack chartered by a Catholic parish, but I am not a Catholic myself. I'm a Scout district volunteer working to build up a unit that was all but defunct a few years ago.

 

The unit is working it's way out of problems. Leadership is much improved and we have our spring recruiting night tonight. As I mentioned earlier, we might consider using the resources of the Cub Pack to help get a girls program going for the Chartered Organization as well.

 

So far I see no reason not to recommend that be an AHG unit.

 

 

[BDPT00]

Seattle,

You're doing the right thing, and I don't mean working with the AHG. I mean that you're doing your own investigation, rather than listening to rumors. You will be pleased with what you find, but don't take that from me. Keep it up, and then share with us what you discover.

BDPT00

[BadenP]

AHG/BSA Mom

 

It is not that AHG claims to be Christian but that their doctrines/dogmas/interpretations are NOT truly Christian but more of a cult like isolationist, exclusive, and morally irreprehensible IMO. The Holy Ghost Church in W.VA dances with rattlesnakes during their services, many members have been bitten and come close to death, some have died from the bites, yet they believe they are truly Christian but no one with any common sense would believe that they were much more than a small isolated cult.

 

AHG has their own peculiar bent on what Christianity is allowing for their isolationist and exclusive teachings which by themselves are truly a FALSE Christianity and puts them into the category of a cult.

 

SP- your understanding of the AHG is as mixed up as your understanding of Catholicism. Go ahead and believe all the false nonsense you have been spreading in this thread, I really could care less. Someday you will see the truth for yourself and it will set you free, until then your attacks are good for a laugh and not much else.

[MomWhoCamps]

Seattle,

I think it's great that you're looking into AHG for your CO. If our troop is any indication (and I hope it is), you'll find that AHG is offers a traditional scouting experience, including all the great outdoor stuff, coupled with Christian values and a strong emphasis on family and girl leadership. I hope you find it to be everything you're looking for.

 

One more link that I wanted to pass on... I think it says a lot about the vision/intent of the organization, i.e. what AHG is trying to do for girls. Enjoy!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GSNyhkUdYs

[MomWhoCamps]

BadenP,

Thanks for your explanation. I am interested in learning which doctrines allegedly supported by AHG are not Christian, in your opinion. I'm including the AHG Statement of Faith below for your reference:

 

"We believe that there is One Triune God Father, Jesus Christ His one and only Son, and the Holy Spirit Creator of the universe and eternally existent. We believe the Holy Scriptures (Old/New Testament) to be the inspired and authoritative Word of God. We believe each person is created in His image for the purpose of communing with and worshipping God. We believe in the ministry of the Holy Spirit who enables us to live a Godly life. We believe that each individual is called to love the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength; and to love their neighbors as themselves. We believe that each individual is called to live a life of purity, service, stewardship and integrity."

 

Also, I've never heard of an isolationist group that evangelizes, but it would make for some interesting internal organizational dynamics, for sure.

[SeattlePioneer]

Are we shooting for the record number of posts in a thread?

[BDPT00]

Shortridge,

 

I went to the site you referenced: www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=41554

Ive copied and pasted below. AHG welcomes all girls, and leaders need to be citizens or legal residents. I dont have access to the forms, so I dont know what you were referring to. I dont see the youth requirement as being exclusive.

 

* Who can be an American Heritage Girl?

Any girl, age 5 and in Kindergarten through age 18 can be an American Heritage Girl. Girls of all different backgrounds are welcome in AHG.

 

* Who can be an AHG Volunteer?

An AHG volunteer must be at least 21 years of age and a citizen or legal resident of the United States.

(I didnt post all of it, as the portion I wanted to clarify was in regard to legal residence.)

 

 

I prefer to stick to facts and actual personal experiences not rumors and guesses.

My experiences and what I've learned are positive.

BDPT00

 

[shortridge]

BDPT,

 

AHG has updated that line since I quoted it to add the legal resident information. Google confirms this with a cached version dated March 16 (http://bit.ly/HI7fjB): An AHG volunteer must be at least 21 years of age and a citizen of the United States.

 

In other words, they got caught (at either being anti-immigrant or incompetent) and then quickly tried to wipe away the evidence.

 

You do indeed have access to the forms. Go to Google and type in the following search line: site:www.ahgonline.org "citizen of the united states"

 

 

I'm basing my criticism of AHG on its own public materials and website, not on any special knowledge. I'm assuming that its public information is accurate, which seems entirely reasonable.

[BDPT00]

Thank you. I'll check it out ... couldn't find them myself.

I hope you get some personal experience with them. I still don't see why the fuss regarding their web site. It all sounds great to me.

BDPT00

[BDPT00]

 

 

They've never been anti-immigrant. That's quite a stretch. Incompetant? Looks like they update their website when they discover an error or misprint. Is that wrong? Do you really think they're trying to hide something? BadenP does. He thinks they're a cult. If so, why would they encourage the girls to earn the religious emblems from their own churches, which helps them grow in their in their faith? Nobody's trying to lead them down a strange path to who-know-where.

BDPT00