American Heritage Girls

[MomWhoCamps]

BadenP,

I suppose you could be right that this could be "an AHG only propaganda." If you look at the original PDF of the FAQ, though, you'll see that it has the BSA logo on the header. I hope and expect that BSA would take swift action against any organization fraudulently using its name and logo.

[qwazse]

BP,

 

Maybe the notion of AHG leaders going to WB and getting lectured on interfaith services bothers you. But as far as I can tell it's the only way to begin to address your concerns.

 

What you really should be worried about is there's one more document out there that calls them "Venture Crews" instead of "Venturing Crews"

[qwazse]

BP,

 

Maybe the notion of AHG leaders going to WB and getting lectured on interfaith services bothers you. But as far as I can tell it's the only way to begin to address your concerns.

 

What you really should be worried about is there's one more document out there that calls them "Venture Crews" instead of "Venturing Crews"

[qwazse]

BP,

 

Maybe the notion of AHG leaders going to WB and getting lectured on interfaith services bothers you. But as far as I can tell it's the only way to begin to address your concerns.

 

What you really should be worried about is there's one more document out there that calls them "Venture Crews" instead of "Venturing Crews"

[BadenP]

qwasze

 

If I thought that AHG leaders would even go to WB let alone talking about interfaith services and religious inclusiveness I would be very open to that exchange, but I do not think that they truly are or ever will be. That is why I am so opposed to this affiliation.

 

As far as Venture vs Venturing Crew, there are more important battles to fight, lol.

[shortridge]

Ah, more sleight of hand and misdirection from AHG! Thanks for the link, AHGnBSAMom.

 

AHG says: "The BSA has a unique relationship with the American Heritage Girls (AHG). Unlike MOUs with other organizations that we work with to serve youth, the BSA and the AHG signed a Memorandum of Mutual Support in June 2009."

 

"Unique relationship"? Err, no. This may be a unique relationship for AHG, but not for BSA. A MMS may be out of the ordinary for AHG, which apparently usually signs MOUs, but to suggest BSA signing the MMS creates a special relationship between the two organizations is a flat-out lie. Yes, I bolded that for intentional emphasis.

 

Here's the MMS with AHG: http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/AmericanHeritageGirls.pdf

 

Now compare it to the MMS' that exist with a host of other organizations:

 

The Zeta Psi Fraternity: http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/44_ZetaPsi.pdf

American Cadet Alliance: http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/06_CadetAlliance.pdf

Knights of Columbus: http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/21_KofC.pdf

AMVETS: http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/amvets.pdf

The Islamic Society of North America: http://scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18_Islamic.pdf

 

Oh, heck, I'll just let you look up the rest: http://bit.ly/HEqZGz

 

So unless Irving is willing to enter into this type of "partnership" with a girls' scout-like organization based on Islamic faith and practices - and let's face it, the old white Christian Republican men at National would have a collective apoplectic fit if such a group were to arise - it should sever all ties with AHG.

 

====================

 

Postscriptum: "American Heritage Girls were represented at the 2010 National Scout Jamboree."

 

... as were the U.S. Army and President Barack Obama. Does representation at the Jamboree mean the Army and the White House automatically have a special relationship with the BSA that allow them to mooch off Irving's resources? Of course not.

 

I have to admit that I admire AHG's use of language to create meaning where there is none. It's very careful and planned, almost artistic. The people in Cincy are excellent communicators (if we ignore the inconsistencies in their citizen-only leader policy documented earlier in this thread). BSA could take a lesson from them in that arena.

[BDPT00]

As long as we're focused on clever language usage, I'd suggest taking a closer look at the reference regarding . It includes legal residents, which means the only exclusion is illegal residents. All girls are welcome, by the way. This exclusion talk is bull. So the comment that AHG makes clever use of language can go both ways.

The AHG is open and up-front about who they are, and what they believe and stand for.

Still leaning very heavily in their favor,

BDPT00

[shortridge]

BDPT,

 

Repeating what I posted six pages ago:

 

As for the whole citizen/leader thing - there's contradictory and confusing information on the website.

 

>> Parents are told: "An AHG volunteer must be at least 21 years of age and a citizen of the United States." www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=41554

 

>> According to the agreements leaders must sign (located on the site through a Google search), unit leaders and assistants must be citizens, while Troop Shepherds, treasurers and vice-coordinators may be citizens or legal residents.

 

So yes, there IS a leader citizenship requirement.

 

-------------------

 

As for AHG being "open to all girls," that's bunk. AHG is all about the Great Commission, spreading Jesus' message to the world. And then there's the Statement of Faith, which reads in part:

 

We believe that there is One Triune God Father, Jesus Christ His one and only Son, and the Holy Spirit Creator of the universe and eternally existent. We believe the Holy Scriptures (Old/New Testament) to be the inspired and authoritative Word of God.

 

Yeah, Jews are really going to agree that Jesus is the son of God and that their Bible is actually called the Old Testament. Good luck with that.

 

As I've said, I have no problem with AHG standing on its own. I simply disagree vehemently with the outright falsehoods and blatant misinformation that it and its supporters are spreading, especially under the guise of being some sort of partner with the Boy Scouts of America.

[shortridge]

For those who want to "twin" or create "brother-sister" AHG and Cub Scout units, take a look at the MMS you're so fond of:

 

"Resolved, that the American Heritage Girls, Inc. and the Boy Scouts of America will work with each other ... to cooperate in establishing American Heritage Girl units and Boy Scout Venturing units as an expression of the organizational values of the organizations."

 

No mention of Cub packs.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

Probably other documents you aren't aware of that do that. Running parallel organizations for girls along with Cub Scouts is where AHG got started, and where it remains most influential, I would suppose.

 

I don't doubt that in a parallel universe, liberals are proposing to merge AHG with Cub Scouts and end the "boy only" Cub Scout program.

 

 

 

 

[shortridge]

Seattle,

 

As you were one of the folks here strongly supporting "twinned" programs, I would have thought you'd have more to back up your position than "probably other documents." The MMS is what AHG and its supporters have relied upon to tout its public "relationship" with BSA. It only addresses Venturing units, with a side mention of Boy Scout troops and zero mention of Cubs. That's a fact.

 

I know AHG isn't all that concerned with facts or consistency, but as Scouts, we should be.

[Scoutfish]

Still, the biggest thing you have to remember is this:

 

No matter what the officvial guidelines say, what the official statement is, or what it's supposed to be about......it still all comes down to the leaders and their attitude and outlook.

 

A group of racist folks could get together one day and start a cub scout pack or troop. Swaet that they will abide by all BSA rules and regulations, and still have a racist and prejudiced unit. They may be very exclucionary to anybody who does not fit their ideal profile.

 

They may deny it, but would still do it.

 

Same for any other type of personality a unit has> An Eagle Mill troop acts and says the same thing as a non mill troop whn it coms to paperwork.

 

You may have a non camping pack, but they look just like a 7 times a year pack when it comes to signing the paperwork and crossing t's and dotting eyes.

 

"Cub Scout Pack 235" dos not tell you if the pack is a strict religous pack or a carefree pack. It does not tell you if the adults are cool casual people or about to pop a vein in their temple if something goes slightly wrong.

 

So, the AHG unit is only as good or bad as the leaders. Not every leader will explicitly and completely follow, agree to or abide by every single rule, sub rule, etc of every rule.

 

All you have top do is look at any 20 troops, pack, crews, etc....

 

If nothing else, look at your ownm unit. Is it just exactly like the next unit you pass?

 

Really? What's different and why? Which unit is doing it wrong...your's or the other one?

 

See what I am saying?

 

The AHG unit that sets up in my town may not be exactly like the one in your twon. The adults may not act lie or feel exactly like yours do.

 

No matter what the paperwork says, every single unit is unique in it's own way.

 

So, I am just saying, if the AHG unit you saw/went to suck..it doesn't mean all of them do. If your unit was awesome, it doesn';t mean all the rfest are.

 

A unit peronality and attitude can only be defined by the attitude and personality of it's leaders and CO.

[CHLees3rd]

I do not have a problem with the BSA and AHG having a MMS as the BSA has MMS's with other organizations; however, what I object to is the extreme lengths the BSA has gone to assist the AHG (such as the use of our YPT; a week long conference at Philmont; allowing Wood Badge attendance, etc.) when many of our highly dedicated Scouting families who are non-Christian will see no benefit. I bet there are many non-Christian Scouters who want a similar program for the daughters to join so that they get a great Scouting experience just like the sons. The AHG says that all are welcome, but does anyone know of any AHG troops that have a predominantly Jewish membership or Buddist or Islamic? Unfortunately, while this ready made girls' program might be a good fit for many in the BSA, the AHG is not a great fit for all in the BSA. If the BSA won't allow CO's the option to have co-ed troops, teams, and packs, then I just wish the BSA had been a bit braver and established it own girls' program to parallel the boys' program. That way each program would have had the same ideals making it a better option for all BSA members and not just the Christian members.

 

Chazz Lees

[SeattlePioneer]

 

 

 

Heh, heh! I imagine that that option was lost once the cookie fundraiser was adopted by a competing organization!

[momof2cubs]

SeattlePioneer said: "I don't doubt that in a parallel universe, liberals are proposing to merge AHG with Cub Scouts and end the "boy only" Cub Scout program."

 

And you had to go there, didn't you. I am a flaming liberal and I vehemently oppose ending the boy only cub/boy scout program(s).

 

People are people and we are all different. There's no need to generalize and stereotype.