More on the politics of Scouting...

[SMT224]

And I just wanna go camping! And so did my Girl Scout daughter, and my Boy Scout sons... But here it is...

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/03/boy-scouts-are-from-mars-girl-scouts-are-from-venus/253957/

 

 

[Eamonn]

I wonder...

What are the feelings of the youth members?

What BP might say?

Ea.

[Basementdweller]

too funny......

 

I wish the BSA's politics were more like the GSA's...My experience is there are a lot of decent gay folks around as there are atheist.

 

The GSA's business model has much to be desired. The GSA does not serve all girls, when unit leaders have the right to turn away girls for things like their age, school they attend, home address, color or religious beliefs...My daughter has experienced all of them and has given up on Girl Scouts.

 

 

 

[qwazse]

I've heard from youth who love their respective program as-is and don't want it to change. I know others who wish things we're different.

[BDPT00]

Basement,

I'm not trackin'.

You think BS should be more like GS?

BDPT00

[moosetracker]

So I ask you where is the middle road, so that we can just blend in and not be models for liberal or Conservative?

 

Accept Gays, but not Atheists.. or vica-versa?

Accept half the gays only or only half the Atheists that want to join?

 

I am sure the GSA is not saying Everyone get an abortion, but rather it is your body, you decide what is right for you, here is what is available.. So if that is Liberal and conservative is to say "You can't do anything, but have babies, or be a virgin".. Then what is middle of the road between the two views.

 

On Gays, Atheists, and womens health I side with the Liberal veiws of GSA.. On who has a better program for the youth, I side with BSA..

 

Problem is there is no middle ground.. Pick a side, and the other half of the world will hate you.

[Eagledad]

>>Problem is there is no middle ground.. Pick a side, and the other half of the world will hate you

[emb021]

Quick notes.

 

Its GSUSA, NOT GSA.

 

Also, its Campfire USA. It used to be Campfire Girls. Then when they went co-ed in the 70s was Campfire Boys and Girls. Campfire Girls used to have a long-time connection with the BSA, and was viewed by many as their counterpart for girls, NOT GSUSA.

 

They are smaller then either the BSA or GSUSA. They don't even exit in all states.

 

 

[Engineer61]

"a tactical arm of Planned Parenthood."

 

Yep, that's how the LDS views them too. Took my daughter selling cookies door-to-door one year in my neighborhood...every LDS household slammed the door in her face, one telling that she (my 8 yo daughter) supported abortion because she was in GS.

 

The Troop banned all door-to-door selling the next year.

[moosetracker]

EagleDad, Doesn't sound too middle of the road to me.. They were the place the conservatives flocked to when Girls Scouts became too Liberal.. They lost members when they themselves became liberal..

 

That was a group that was on one playing field, and jumped to the other playing field. But not a group that both conservatives & Liberals agreed at the same time was running things just fine..

 

emb021 - Too many letters in those abbreviations.. No, seriously thanks for the correction.

[Eagle92]

Yep, Campfire Girls WAS the offical sister program of the BSA, and if you look at the 1910 founders of Campfire Girls, you see almost all of the BSA folks who started the BSA, including West if memory serves.

[Eagledad]

>>That was a group that was on one playing field, and jumped to the other playing field. But not a group that both conservatives & Liberals agreed at the same time was running things just fine..

[moosetracker]

Ahhh.. I did not say that the liberal approach was the wrong side of the fence to sit on.. Just basically that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't..

 

I still believe if you are going to preach diversity awareness and diversity acceptance, then you should walk the walk. BSA preaches but does not follow their own teachings.

 

I am just saying their is no place to pull these kids out of the war of who is right and who is wrong.. There is nothing that any youth organization can do that will be seen as a correct path to take by the two sides of the debate. They should not be the pawns in our battle, as they are.

 

The right choice would really be to create a policy that took the kids out of the limelight of being on the wrong side of the fence for either one side or the other. But there is no such policy that can be formed to do that..

 

Lucky for me and my liberal senses, my child might have been raised with BSA teachings, but because he learned to how to accept and work with the diversity that BSA did allow, he was never taught by BSA that diversity acceptance ends with this group and that group. So when he was old enough to learn their discriminating practices, he was able to see it as a bad policy.. Strangly because of BSA teachings that their discrimination was not morally correct..

 

So BSA will talk the right talk, but not walk the right walk..

 

So is that a middle ground? Raise our kids with the "Do what I say, not what I do".. And when they are old enough to make changes, and run the government, the changes will come?

[Oak Tree]

I realize that there are a lot of differences between the programs, but when it comes down to philosophy, how many actual differences are there?

 

Boy Scouts won't accepts gays or atheists, GSUSA will. Girl Scouts has some type of support for Planned Parenthood. Is that it?

 

Quite honestly, if you look at the aims and methods of BSA, it all sounds like good mom and apple pie stuff. There's nothing dealing with homosexuality anywhere. There is a reference to God, but it's not like the BSA is all that focused on this point - the normal Scouting program just doesn't require much at all in the way of religion. And it's just a very odd religion that says both the Christian and Muslim beliefs are ok, but atheism is not. Neither Christian nor Muslim leaders would make that claim, I don't think.

 

My experience with the youth of today is that being gay is no big deal to them. The BSA is going to have to change on this point sooner or later, but it may very well be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of thing. Membership is going to take a hit in either direction.

 

I don't think the BSA will change its view on God any time soon, even though in practice I'm sure there are many Scouts who just mouth the words.

 

For most of the BSA, I suspect there is a big don't-ask-don't-tell de facto policy in place.

 

There is very little middle ground - many organizations have essentially been forced onto one side or another of this fence.

 

I'd love to just deal with outdoor skills and mentoring kids - which is what I do in practice, but I'd like to do it without the political backdrop.

 

I just looked at the Campfire USA web site, and I can't figure out what it is that they do. They use an "outcome rich curriculum" and groups "choose from a variety of fun and educational activities and projects." You've got to have a mission.

 

I suppose there is still a little bit of middle ground. The youth sports leagues don't seem to be too political. Nobody slams the door on a soccer player because of national issues. I'd like to see Scouting more like that. The clear thing about Scouting that attracts people is the outdoors. That's the mission I'd like to see emphasized.

 

 

[moosetracker]

That is true OakTree, why does sports not get crushed in this political upheavel.. Is it just that the sports teams are not really under a big enough umbrella. More locally run and managed? Is it because people see it as just sports, not really there to strengthen the childs moral compass? Is it because the never tied God into it, and don't try delve into sex education? So the worse that can happen is do we allow the gay football player on the team or don't we?? And it's sort of a question of was he good enough to make the cut and was discriminated against or not?

 

Schools get into teaching diversity acceptance, they don't get crushed for it.. Both with hiring Teachers and children. Is that because it is simply a public establishment, so conservatives ignore the fact they treat the unwashed with equal respect, because they figure they were forced to do so by government mandates?