Hunting on Sundays

[Eamonn]

qwazse

Think I live about 50 miles from you.

Really haven't taken a lot of notice about the Sunday hunting topic.

A lot if not most of the guys I work with are avid hunters.

Mainly Deer (Buck) Bear and turkey.

Everything they do seems in some way to revolve around guns and hunting.

When the vacation picks come out for our Correction Officers the prime hunting dates seem to go first.

When they are not hunting they fill their time in with Gun Bashes, Duck banquets, Turkey Banquets and game dinners.

I used to host a Game Dinner every year which was a fund raiser for various local charities (Yes the local Council was remembered!) We raised about six thousand dollars each year!

I don't hunt, but I respect the guys who do and many of the organizations that support wildlife and help provide habitat for wildlife.

I've attended a few of the banquets.

Boy!! Do those guys know how to raise money.

As for hunting on Sunday?

I will bet if the Game Commission can make a few extra dollars selling a Sunday license, They will!!

Ea.

[Scoutfish]

I'll say this: I hunt with a fishing pole. not a gun. Never been much into hunting myself, although I do love me some deer jerky!

 

But, even the non hunter I am, I do know most of the areas the local hunters hunt on. Private owned property that they had express permission to hunt on.

 

Point being, If I take my cub scouts hiking in those areas, and one gets shot...youi should blame me first and foremost.

 

Why? Because it would mean I was in a place I did not have permission to be in and/ or thatr I didn't bother to talk to anybody about going to that particular place as I surely would have been advised that people were hunting there.

 

Wether you like hunting or not, there is responcibility on our part too. We can't just say that we are scouts abnd just go hikiung anywhere anytime we want. WE do have the responcibility to check and see whats's going on wether an area is closed to hunting, pollution, land conservation project, or just off limits due to the rare and endangered Eastern Scarlett Skeeterhawk.

 

Sure, the hunters have the same responcibility too.

[BartHumphries]

Hunters seem to be more dedicated (some might say fanatical) about going hunting. Rain or shine, no matter what else is happening, they seem to always go. Campers seem to be more lackadaisical -- massive numbers on Labor Day and Memorial Day, presuming the weather is good, not so many the rest of the year. I could see why some land management agencies might want to cater to hunters equally as much as campers (instead of catering to campers more as has historically been the case in most places).

[johnponz]

I never understood the allure of killing any living thing on purpose (of course I am excluding insects from this).(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[JoeBob]

Eating.

[Beavah]

Yah, cooking. Yeh don't think your hamburger comes from da shrink-wrap factory, surely.

 

Also, in states like mine, hunting is important to control a herd that has no other natural predators. Otherwise da number of injuries and fatalities from car vs. deer or plane vs. deer encounters would be a lot higher than they are. At too large a herd size, da things are pestiferous.

 

B

 

[Tampa Turtle]

I got mixed feelings regarding hunters. The ones I know are about 50% yahoos; which would be OK if they weren't armed yahoos. We have had problems during some campouts where there was illegal hunting going on near the boys --in areas where none was ever allowed. Pretty sure GSS frowns on boys getting shot and all.

[johnponz]

Please see this link. The views in it line up pretty well with my own. http://www.idausa.org/facts/hunting.html

 

Please, do not say you hunt for food. Very few people hunt for food. Most go to the grocery store and purchase farm grown meat. There is much better thing to do with your time than going out into the woods looking for an animal to kill (these are modern times). There really is no need for this barbaric practice.

[JoeBob]

John,

 

I followed your link and just about laughed myself out of my chair. What nonsense!

 

Here's a link for you to read:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman-Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act

 

"hunters contribute about three and a half million dollars a day to conservation by purchasing taxable items and hunting licenses"

 

I personally would much rather die instantaneously from a bullet in the brain than to have my teeth wear down to the point that I couldn't eat. It takes a whitetail about 18 months to slowly waste away and the wild dogs can pull it down .

 

I wonder how long it takes to lose consciousness when five coyotes are chewing you? What a way to go!

[johnponz]

Bottom line...Must of the hunters that I know say that they do it for fun and because they like it.

 

I really do not see how killing things is a recreational activity, and I definiktely would not take my nine year old out to teach him how to kill things!!

[packsaddle]

TampaTurtle, I suspect some of your bullets might land just a little south of me.

I don't want to encourage anyone to engage in a 'pileon' for johnponz but I would like to hear his answer to my question.

Why do you single out such a small number of animals for your concern. I am interested in understanding how one group of organisms can receive the fervent concern expressed in that link and other groups of organisms, far more numerous, receive no consideration whatsoever? What is the underlying philosophical theory that allows this type of distinction?

 

While I tend to agree with your conclusion about the food aspect of sport hunting, I speak as a person who has killed primarily for food, and consumed, countless fish, invertebrates, and vegetables. I hope you don't think that violence was done as sport. It wasn't.

[johnponz]

Philosophically, my view is pretty simple. I believe that life is sacred and no one should make a recreational event out of killing (yes I include fishing in this as well as hunting-although I do not consider fishing as offensive as hunting-I will explain the difference below). I cringe when I hear about people throwing a frog into a fire for no reason. Also, I find it offensive when a person removes an insects wings and let it suffer for no reason.

As far as where I draw the line, I use the classification system, kingdom, phylum, class, order, genus, species (I do not believe killing plants or viri is offensive because they are in whole different kingdoms-so pick as many pumpkins as you want). The closer the animal is to a human the more offensive I find the killing. Thus, I find the killing of a mammal more offensive than the killing of a reptile or bird. The killing of another human would be the most offensive. (Again, I emphasize by killing here I am referring to recreational killing).

I believe it is ok if you hunt solely for food, and find no recreation or joy in the killing. I also believe it is ok to kill an animal in defense of another human or yourself (I would include a family pet here as well). Even killing another human in self-defense is justifiable. The real distinction is killing for fun.

My biggest problem with hunting is that most hunters do it for sport or recreation, and I find it extremely offensive to kill fellow mammals for no other reason than because you believe it is fun to do so. The hunters that I have spoken to, mostly share a story about how they cried or were similarly upset upon their first kill. There is a reason for this, and I believe it is wrong to desensitize our children to their natural aversion to killing.

(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

Yeh know, it reminds me a bit of da young lads who are too scared to go take a dump in a pit toilet that they hold it to the point of makin' 'em sick. They've lived all of their lives in an artificial, sterile, sanitized porcelain plumbing world, and they start to see natural functions as something awful, dirty, or ethically unsound.

 

We're not producer organisms, eh? No chlorophyll. That means to survive, we kill things. Plants and animals. Can't see where it makes much difference whether we do it ourselves or pay other "lower class" people to do our killing for us so that we can have our artificial, sterile, sanitized and shrink-wrapped food, other than how it lets us get all snooty lookin' down at other people. Does anyone really believe that the animals on a factory farm are somehow happier and better treated than those that run in the wild?

 

I'll certainly agree that fish and wildlife are managed in part for hunters, who in turn produce revenue. In the same way that trails are managed for hikers, who in turn produce revenue in visits, tourist dollars, hiking boots, etc. I'll agree that managed herds, like managed forests, are not entirely "natural". There are places which should be free of such things that remain true wilderness preserves. Just not every place, or even most. We need places for harvesting wood and for scouts to hike.

 

I know some folks prefer artificial Christmas trees (because they feel harvestin' metal and plastic is more environmentally sound?), and most prefer to have some working stiff cut their tree for 'em and package it up at da sterile neighborhood tree lot. Me, I like to go out and cut my own (legally, on land where it's allowed). It gives me pleasure. I enjoy the excuse to get outside and enjoy the fresh air, I enjoy the "hunt" for the right tree, and the fact that none are as "perfect" as the factory lot trees. I like that it teaches me about trees and tree growth and nature. Over da years I've learned the names and differences of all da various conifers. I like that it takes some real effort on my part, and I get to do it with my own hands rather than buyin' a sterile package. And yep, I like to say a quiet prayer of thanksgiving to God for the bounty of nature he's provided, which I feel closer to.

 

Can't see why hunting is any different. Some avoid it with artificial protein supplements. Some like it sterile and shrink-wrapped by others. Some find pleasure in gettin' outdoors and doin' things themselves. To each his own.

 

My question, if yeh really object, is "Why stop at killing?" Subjecting humans to slavery is an awful ethical violation. Almost as awful as murder, sometimes even worse in some ways. Yet we routinely subject other mammals to a lifetime of servitude - oxen, horses, working dogs. Worse, we subject most of 'em to selective breeding and eugenics programs because people like good-looking, well-behaved slave/pets. Is there really much difference between stocking ponds with fish for fishermen and breeding canine stock for pet stores?

 

Beavah

 

[BartHumphries]

I think it's impossible to hunt for food and not feel any joy. Wait, don't misunderstand me, I'm not talking about some sort of sociopathic joy in the death of something else. I just think it's impossible to do something well and not feel some joy/pride in having done it well. That being said, I haven't actually gone hunting, but I still feel that it would be pretty much impossible to not feel any joy, simply because hunting is a difficult, time consuming and usually expensive hobby and doing it well enough to complete the desired task (bagging the desired prey) would seem to be something that would generate some measure of joy and or pride.

 

This may not be true if a person has gone hunting for food enough times that it's become merely a chore. However, even if hunting had become a chore and brought no "pride in one's workmanship", no joy in doing something well, I think a person hunting for food would still feel some joy that the chore was now basically done, that it was about to be feast time.

 

I'm pretty sure, from talking to hunters, that virtually every hunter tries to eat what they kill. The hunters I've spoken with who were unable to eat what they killed were pretty uniformly bitter about not being able to eat what they killed and blamed various rules/laws.

[Eamonn]

A long time ago I accepted the fact that I would never make a great hunter.

I'm not very comfortable with killing.

I live out in the sticks.

A lot of my friends think that it's a little odd that someone born in the Smoke (London.) Would by choice live deep in the country.

When I'm at work it's never quite. I'm very often surrounded by people calling my name. So much so that I've threatened to change my name to "I've got a small penis" Thinking that maybe then the inmates might cut me a break?

Much as I enjoy my job, it is very stressful.

My "Me time" is the time I spend out doors walking my dogs.

I love my dogs and they give me great pleasure and great joy.

We walk between 3 -5 miles everyday.

While I'm no wildlife expert I know a fair bit about what we will see and do see when we are out.

Most of what we see is much the same from year to year.

In early spring hundreds of robins protecting a small area that each one seems to have decided is his area, not allowing other robins to invade.

I had one dog who just loved to chase robins, but the three I have now are too lazy.

Some robins must either be very brave or be very dumb? They will wait till one of the dogs is almost upon them before they will give way.

Friday my little terrier gets really upset with the groundhogs who stick their heads up out of their holes and wait till she is within a few feet of them before retreating back down the hole. This upsets Friday a lot.

This past couple of winters we have had a flock of Canadian Snow Geese who have for some reason decided that they will stop for a few days in one of the corn fields. They don't seem to do very much, just hang out and make a racket.

Ollie the English Setter who ignores the robins cant resist taking off at full sprint to chase these guys. There are several hundred of them, the field is about half a mile long, by the time he has coved the entire field the guys at the end where he started are back. So he gives up till the next day.

Dudley my two year old Goldie who replaced Rory is a bit of a Daddies boy, he very rarely strays more than a few feet away from me. He doesn't bark very much. Maybe because his mouth is full with whatever toy he decided to take that day. More often than not an old tennis ball.

The dogs have their long walk at around 13:30. They have their "Tea" (Are fed at 18:00 in the summer and 17:00 once the clocks change.) After they eat we have a very quick 15-20 minute walk.

About three weeks back, on a Saturday the dogs had had their tea and we were out. The sun was going down. Dudley had gone into the woods at the bottom of my yard and was making a fuss. Barking and running around in circles. Very odd for him. Friday joined him and then of course Ollie joined in.

I live in fear of skunks! Friday has messed with a few and trying to get her cleaned up and rid of the smell is a real pain. I went to where the dogs were praying that it wasn't a skunk.

It wasn't a skunk. There laying was a magnificent eight point buck.

I called the dogs and put them in "Lie" Friday was most unhappy, giving me a look from the corner of her eye.

I moved as close as I dared toward this deer and it soon became clear that he had a broken front leg.

I wasn't sure what to do?

I don't own a gun, I don't have a hunting license, it was past sunset and it was a Saturday.

So I called the dogs and took them home and then called the Game Commission after being put on hold for over ten minutes I explained my situation and they said that they would send someone out.

Good as their word they did.

I took the fellow to where the deer was.

I couldn't look as he with one shot put the poor animal out of his misery.

The guy from the Game Commission couldn't have been nicer. He showed me how to field dress a deer, something I didn't know and not being a hunter had never done.

He asked me if I wanted the meat? I said why not. He said that he was supposed to charge me ten dollars a point if I wanted the rack, but he didn't have the paperwork to do that! So let it go.

There is a local old time meat market not far from us. HWMBO went to school with the guy who owns it. He came out on Sunday picked up the dead animal.

I now have 114 pounds of deer meat in my freezer.

And an eight point rack that is the envy of a lot of the guys I work with.

Ea.