Abuse

[chaoman45]

I know the Penn State thing is older news and I'm late addressing this, but the more I think about the implications from it the more confused I get.

 

Sandusky's actions were deplorable and the suspicion of a cover-up tarnished the names of many men, as well as an entire school. The actions of a few should not be representative of the entire body, of course, but it's worrisome because... it happens in the BSA more than it should. After the media caught wind, the **** hit the fan and it created a plethora of emotions in an entire student body. Though the victims' stories have come to light and the BSA (or somebody from the council/district, at least) have addressed this, how much is going to chance really? Probably not very much.

 

Sexual abuse will continue getting attention, especially in organisations directed toward boys. I just Googled "boy scout molestation" to prove that point and found news stories as recent as a couple of days ago. Mostly, these stories have a commonality between them and the Penn State issue - leaders FAILED TO REPORT. Very bad. Even though Youth Protection is required, there is no guarantee it will prevent all abuse. Then again, it's not like I expected it to. My biggest problem I guess is that I question the extent of background checks that are supposedly performed. Applications all say that they will be conducted, but how extensively? I wonder what would happen if Pee Wee Herman put in an application? Moreover, the co-operation with law enforcement is mixed. YPT says to tell the Scout Executive and authorities are notified if needed, yet National refuses to share the information contained within its Black Book. Why? Not to sound anti-BSA, but the polarised willingness to work with the law won't help anything.

 

btw, if you want to read the indictment, feel free. They don't pretty up the situation and it's actually pretty disturbing.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/72104007/Sandusky-Indictment

[Papadaddy]

There were failures on all levels at Penn State, starting with the guy who witnessed an adult raping a child in the locker room shower. Is there anyone who would not have called 911 immediately in such an instance? As a former training guy who taught BSA Youth Protection, the only thing I disagree with is the policy of reporting everything to the Scout Executive who can then try to mitigate the PR damage. I'm not convinced that protecting kids is the top-most concern. It's up to us, the front line, to protect those in our charge. 2-deep, no matter what. No one on one contact, no matter what. Know the adults you are working with. We once had a young man "drop in" on a troop meeting (maybe 21-22 years old) who expressed an interest in "helping out". We were polite, but the threat alarms were screaming in my head (due to my YP training). I gave him an app and told him everyone had to be registered, and there WOULD be a background and reference check. Never saw the dude again. Could have been innocent. Could have been a pedophile probing our defenses. Ya never know. NEVER take chances with the kids.

[Beavah]

Chaoman45, what yeh have to appreciate about these situations are that they usually are ambiguous, and there are such things as false accusations. A private organization like da BSA can ban someone based on suspicion, but it can't publish that suspicion to the world. That would be libel, unless the BSA could actually prove that the person was a molester. If some organization published that you were in its Black Book as a child abuser, wouldn't you go after 'em? That sort of thing can destroy your life, and the damages you deserve when an organization does that to you should properly be both large and punitive.

 

Da experts in the field say that on average a perp of this sort molests 126 boys before being caught. It's rarely as cut-and-dried as a man raping a boy in a public facility, and even then (as we saw) conflicts of interest and loyalties exert far more influence on choices than we'd think. Just the norms of human nature. Look how few Republicans are willing to call out Republican leaders when they've been bad actors. Look at how da Democrats in Congress went and applauded Bill Clinton after he had been impeached. We tend to stick by "our people", right or wrong. It's actually quite remarkable when someone does have da courage to stand up.

 

However, it's easy to do what Papadaddy did and just give newcomers and strangers the cold shoulder. Makes us feel like we're being righteous and responsible without havin' the real social cost of standing up to friends. In reality, it's probably not responsible, it's just rude. There's nothing in YP training that says we should shun a young adult who is interested in helping us out. Quite da opposite. Heck, we often hire fellows like that as camp program directors and such.

 

If yeh had good YP training, you'd know that da typical perp for these sorts of things is an older family man like Jerry Sandusky.

 

Beavah

 

[Papadaddy]

If giving someone an application and explaining the process is "rude" and "irresponsible", then so be it. Meet me for a cuppa joe and I'll tell you about our former Camp Director who is now a convicted felon. Impeccable references, Eagle Scout, Vigil, could sing and play the guitar and ran the best camp I ever saw. I would have trusted him with my kids and my life. When it was discovered he was "counseling" his young staff at camp and at his home back in town, it made the papers and shook this council to its core. I learned a hard lesson, and will NEVER forget it.

[Tampa Turtle]

Thanks for posting the Sandusky link; pretty sober reading. Innocent until proven guilty...sure looks like he is guilty as H*LL. Looks like a systematic predator.

 

I was abused as a 4th grader (PE Coach) and didn't tell anyone. I was confused and thought no one would believe me vs. the coach. Eventually the word got around to my parents through some kid who must have saw something. I don't know what my parents did but one day the coach was gone. (He still coached and never lost his job). It was around 1970 and I think folks didn't want to "scar me" by making things public. So I was glad that in the Sandusky case several victims told their folks.

 

I guess I wasn't too messed up by it. I was lucky. As my dad was terminal I found out that my dad had been raped as an RC Alter Boy in the 1930's. He became very very bitter and cynical toward all religion, passed that attitude to most of his children, and died an atheist. (My mom was a lay minister -I guess that evened things out) My dad lived with that shame for 79 years when it wasn't his fault. These abusers can leave a pretty big trail of damage.

 

I make sure when the topic comes up with the boys during the 3 R's to remember that "Recognize" means it could be me (the ASM), an older scout, a coach, or whomever not just the stranger danger. We actually make the guys practice "resisting" by shouting, etc since some guys are really shy.

 

I have found the "Gift of Fear" book (and sequel) pretty good for making arguments that we all need to trust our gut more. I have cribbed a few notes from that in talking to the boys.

 

I think we must be careful about the difference of the "institutional response" vs "the actual response". My wife teaches sunday school and went through a much more vigorous YPT than we get. Yet the minister announced how proud he was that our church had some the toughest YP "policies" around. I reminded him policies are fine --if you are focused on CYA for the institution--you want them to be practices that folks consistently do actually protect the youth.

 

One of our ASM's wife was an FBI agent assigned to targeting child predators and child porn. (I am glad I do not have that job) She gave us a pretty brutal presentation on some of what is going on and how predators can avoid background checks.

 

I don't ant y'all to think we are overly paranoid but just trying to be vigilant.

[chaoman45]

Okay, I just checked and they don't call it a black book as I thought.

 

http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/BSAYouthProtection/BSA_Communications/Ineligible_Volunteer_Files.aspx

 

The Ineligible Volunteer Files is a formal name, but even with its bureaucracy cannot stop all crimes (again, expecting it to would be unreasonable). Those in YPT should have to sign something, promising they WILL report abuse or suspected abuse. The IVF page entrusts all volunteers to do so and all volunteers must have YPT, but, as I said, not all do report it. At least if they have a signature, the BSA won't take all the blame...

[Engineer61]

The PSU and other recent events have caused me to think the reality is that these "people" (a term I use very loosely in this case) are everywhere, looking for opportunities to strike.

 

Those places that give these psychos less restricted access (or worse free access) to boys will always be a target ... Church retreats, BSA campouts, private sports coaches are all targeted opportunities for these creeps.

 

Does anyone really think that YPT will stop a predator from signing up?

 

Will 2-deep make a difference if both adults are predators?

 

I started reading Patrick Boyle's book, partly for the historical aspect and also under the hope that I could somehow extract some idea of what to look for to identify these monsters. I wonder of the 50 or so coaches in my baseball league, how many are predators?

 

I really wish someone had an answer to this ...

 

[fred8033]

Does anyone really think that YPT will stop a predator from signing up?

 

YPT is about removing opportunity. If you remove opportunity, predators will go elsewhere. The key is to create an environment that has built in defenses.

 

In our troop, we teach new parents / leaders to help create a climate that it just doesn't happen. It's not about accusing anyone. It's about the environment. For example, if an adult is going to hang back to wait for a scout, hang back with 'em. If a leader is going to go check on the scouts, put your cards down and walk with 'em. Don't make a big deal of it. Just be a friendly shadow for the other adult.

 

 

Will 2-deep make a difference if both adults are predators?

 

I'm not sure I've ever heard of such a case. I've always heard about the lone predator. I'm not sure if being a serial predator loans itself to partnering up. Predators groom victims developing trust and it takes time. Yes there are crime partners for theft, rape and other things. But those crimes are hard to hide.

 

I wonder of the 50 or so coaches in my baseball league, how many are predators?

 

Probably none. Now if the coach starts inviting the team over for sleep overs or brushes a kid's hair or ...., then I'd have a concern.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[kari_cardi]

Our YPT says to notify the council then call children's services. Council doesn't make the call to children's services, the guidelines specifically state that the responsibility is the original reporter. And if it is an emergency situation, call 911. Do these instructions vary a lot from council to council?

[Papadaddy]

Yes, I believe they do. The mandatory reporting laws vary from state to state.

[Eagledad]

>>I wonder of the 50 or so coaches in my baseball league, how many are predators?

[SR540Beaver]

sasha,

 

It does vary due to state laws. In our council, we have a number to call 24 hours a day that will get us in contact with the Scout Executive. Once reported to him, it is out of our hands and we can't find out whatever came of the case. I think this is to protect everyone involved. I do know that in 2005 while touring DC before the Jambo, one of the 12 year old boys claimed that his step-dad beat him. He stated this in his hotel room full of other boys. The boys knew what to do and reported it to me and another ASM. Unfortunately, this ASM and myself were his ASM in our home troop and his step-dad was the SM. Because of our relationship with both the boy and his step-dad, we took it to our Jambo SM who immediately made the call back to our council in Oklahoma. Probably 10 minutes elapsed from the time he said it until the SM was onthe phone. Once our duty was done, we never heard a peep out of the council as to what transpired. The boy is now an aged out Eagle and Vigil Honor and I just saw his step-dad when I visited the NYLT course he was staffing. I assume that the council investigated and it was determined there was nothing behind it. I do know that the boy was quite a "talker" and still is. He was/is severly ADD. But that in no way means he couldn't have been telling the truth. You never know what any individual is capable of. We followed the rules in our council.

 

While I have not followed the Penn State case all that closely, I have at times wondered if Joe Pa wasn't getting a raw deal out of the whole thing. I could be very wrong, but my understanding from some of the reporting was that their policy is much like my council where you report to the top and they handle it. Joe Pa did report what he knew. The folks at the top didn't follow thru. Should he be caught in the net of those to be held responsible. That will be an ongoing debate. Many people feel like he is just as guilty as the abuser.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Eagledad.

 

In 2004 I was a volunteer with a troop I had just joined. Capmoree was the first campout I attended with the troop.

 

During the course of the Camporee, I was approached by a mother who was camping with the troop with her children. She confided to me that her tween age daughter had had sex with an Assistant Scoutmaster at camp.

 

I didn't take any action on that report myself. A few months later that AS had his BSA membership permanently revoked, I was told.

 

That's not quite an example of a Scout being abused at camp, but it's pretty close.

[Tampa Turtle]

I did hold my elementary experience against coaches. I have know some great ones. I did have a football coach is High School who was a real you know what. I was a Center and pulled some tendons in my ankle. I could barely walk off the field. Coach made me go back in the next series. Promptly tore out 2 on one side of foot. Still have the limp. Think about that coach every day. We only won one game that season anyway--what was the point. Realized I was just a piece of meat to him. Jerk bag.

[Eagledad]

>>That's not quite an example of a Scout being abused at camp, but it's pretty close