BSA fails to report abuser - LA Times, CBC

[Eagledad]

Boy, I wish my experiences were as clear cut. But the vast vast majority of calls that Council get and that you folks will likely encounter are situation where there is a fuzzy line between abuse or just two different opinions on the situation. And, the discussion here has been about adult abusers, but in this day and age, I would guess a 3rd of the calls Council receives are reports on scouts.

 

I have been involved and observed a few Youth Protections issues and there is a lot at stake if they are not handled correctly. What if the police were called first and it turned out only a misunderstanding? That adult, scout or parent could risk getting a reputation that will follow them for a long time. It can be very stressful holding the responsibility of ruining a persons life, so everything must be done appropriately to make sure the act is put in the appropriate category of response. And, as I have found, each situation is different. There are times that calling the SE first is the right course of action so as not to over react, but to get another opinion from a source of experience. I have heard a scouter say more than once boy, Im glad I called you first.

 

Also, council in general is not going to always act first even when you report abuse. Right or wrong, my experience is that with lesser abuse situations, they typically will just monitor the unit to see how it gets handled. So dont assume that once you call the SE, the ball is out of your court. Likely if you assume that, nothing will get done and you may still have a danger in your unit. Be proactive and bring ONLY the very few folks who must be involved to develop a course of action. But its also important to understand that 98% of these things can be handled appropriatly in the unit.

 

I know we are reading a lot of I would do this and I will do that if this happens to us on the forum here, but my observation is that unit leaders typically do just the opposite and procrastinate, even to the point of nothing getting done or just letting it go away. Its normal, we arent trained for these kinds of things and so we dont want to get involved. But in most situations, time makes things worse and could give opportunity for the threat to repeat itself. Be proactive to Protect your scouts.

 

Barry

 

[qwazse]

Having had hours of my time wasted by "sweep-under-ther-rug" types, I lean toward calling HQ. Of course having talked with several adults, I have gained some idea of what's acceptable (sharing a bunk-house with another adult and 20 other cubs) and what's not (grooming behavior toward a particular boy), and realize the SE has gained the same common sense.

 

If you think only a BSA reg is violated, call your council SE and ask for advise. If you think a youth was actually harmed, report to the authorities first, then call the SE.

 

Either way, this is not a comfortable situation for an upright person being accused. But the alternative (letting things fester in a rumor mill) is far worse.

 

That's my simple-minded interpretation of the G2SS.

 

Two more thoughts:

1. We still have years until we will know if the policy changes over the past 20 years have made a dent in these horrendous behaviors.

2. As awful as the BSA's history may seem, I've learned that these same ways of handling criminal behavior show up in other clubs, including public schools. Anybody thinking that their kid is somehow "safer" from predators if you keep him/her away from large youth movements is delusional.

[T2Eagle]

JoeBob,

 

Maybe you should report yourself for a YPT violation, or at least pay more attention and think a little harder next time before you do violate the guidelines.

 

The G2SS very explicitly covers exactly the situation you describe, and based on your deriding the guidelines as politically correct its easy to imagine you didnt follow them.

 

6. Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youths of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youths. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be Youth Protectiontrained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or a sheet wall in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area.

 

And before you dismiss this as hairsplitting ask yourself how well you really know all 50 of those adults. Can you say for certain none of them harbor any evil intent? And what about the boys and siblings? YPT rules are in place to protect both youth and adults. Theres been discussion in this thread about not overreacting and ruining someones reputation. If some kid goes home and says Mr. JoeBob was watching while I changed into my pajamas the situation could quickly spiral out of control all to your or some other innocent adults detriment.

 

These types of accommodations are a fairly common circumstance. Our troop does a couple of cabin camps most years, and most council camps are set up so that cabins have at least a curtain separated area for adults, but when they dont we always have a tarp to string up.

 

[Engineer61]

Another one?

 

Beginning to see why my wife is trying to get me involved in Scouts...

 

Exactly how are we parents supposed to sleep at night when our Scouts are off on camping trips, Philmont or Jambo, when we know there are pedophiles in the mix.

 

Find'em and report'em ... please.

 

[Engineer61]

"We were following exactly the national recommendations of the Boy Scouts of America and its board who set up the rules," said A. Buford Hill Jr., a former Orange County Scouting executive, in a recent interview. "You do not want to broadcast to the entire population that these things happen. You take care of it quietly and make sure it never happens again."

 

I guess that sums it up.

 

I sounds just like the Catholic Church.

 

I guess I'm not sleeping one weekend a month for the next 5 years.

[drmbear]

Our Chartered Organization Rep, one of the ministers at the church, was recently active duty military, now reserves, and he said he would personally "take care" of any adult leader that harmed one of our boys. I know he said it in jest, but we all have to take responsibility for protecting Scouting and what it stands for. All the more reason to bring in and involve all the parents we possibly can.

[JoeBob]

T2Eagle:

 

You've been set-up and taken the bait:

http://www.patriotspoint.org/overnight_camping/

 

Sometimes, when you're splitting hairs; all you get is two halves of a hair.

 

JoeBob

[T2Eagle]

It looks like a great place to take a unit JoeBob, but I don't see the bait. I see dormitory type sleeping quarters and our organization has rules that govern how that needs to be set up.

 

The rules that another organization says are sufficient for their needs don't mean they're OK for us.

 

As I said in my post this isn't uncommon, lots of cabins out there where youth and adults share one big room, but we separate those areas: scouts over here, adults over there, with screening in between for changing and sleeping.

[JoeBob]

T2Eagle:

 

Good luck getting those first grader Tigers who have never slept away from home to sleep in a bunk next to a another kid he doesn't know while his dad hides out behind a tarp with the other dads on the other side of the room. The racks are right next to each other stacked four high. That's eight people sleeping in an area smaller that your average walkin closet. We tried to keep family groups together (Moms were far away in the JO quarters) and dens close. There weren't a lot of empty bunks, so the older boys had to be flexible just to get us wedged into the space.

 

The Yorktown is an unusual situation where idealistic YP hits reality. The rules could not be applied.

But it really did not matter, for the reverse reasoning that YP was written to address.

The 'Separate Accomodations' doctrine was written to prevent predators form getting alone with youth. Our scenario had many eyes on everyone, all the time. There was absolutely NO privacy in which a predator could operate, or even ogle.

 

Few of the dads were able to sleep in the tight spaces, so someone had eyes on all the time.

 

BTW, if any of your packs/troops are in the Southeast and are considering the Yorktown for an overnighter, I very highly reccomend it.

[Engineer61]

"I know he said it in jest, but we all have to take responsibility for protecting Scouting and what it stands for."

 

Huh? I don't think that came out right.

 

How about protecting the boys ... Scouting will protect itself as a result. "Protecting Scouting" is what has gotten us to this point.

[KC9DDI]

The Yorktown is an unusual situation where idealistic YP hits reality

 

"Idealistic YP" for me is an environment where Scouts are protected from harm, and have safe, appropriate interactions with adult leaders and their own peers. Not blindly following a bunch of guidelines simply because they exist, without affording any additional thought or common sense for the matter.

 

The 'Separate Accomodations' doctrine was written to prevent predators form getting alone with youth.

 

For starters, it's not a doctrine. It's a guideline, that happens to be generally a very good idea. Also, YP in general addresses more concerns than just sexual predators. As I said, it's about creating a safe, appropriate and comfortable environment for our youth members. Obviously protection from sexual predators is an important component of that goal (though, hopefully, not the most common one.) I'd say the "separate accommodations" guideline is a good idea, even if there are no sexual predators present, simply because it removes a level of discomfort involved with youth and adults changing clothes in the same area. Even if there's no "oggling" going on, it's clear why that would make youth uncomfortable.

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Lets make sure the TWO DIFFERENT sets of guidelines are not confused here:

 

YPT covers :

 

Separate accommodations. When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his or her own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers. Likewise, youth and adults must shower at different times.

 

Respect of privacy. Adult leaders must respect the privacy of youth members in situations such as changing clothes and taking showers at camp, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults must protect their own privacy in similar situations.

 

G2SS covers:

 

10.Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youths of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youths. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be Youth Protectiontrained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or a sheet wall in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area.

11.When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian.

12.If separate shower and latrine facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers. Likewise, youth and adults must shower at different times. The buddy system should be used for latrines by having one person wait outside the entrance, or provide Occupied and Unoccupied signs and/or inside door latches. Adult leaders need to respect the privacy of youth members in situations where youth members are changing clothes or taking showers, and intrude only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults also need to protect their own privacy in similar situations.

 

Granted, one falls as a sub catagory of the other, but at the same time, you are looking at two different things.

 

Both though are laid out in a manner of "Do the best you can to adhere to" as BSA knos that ther will always be circumstances where the rules just don't fit.

 

And having an entire room of males bunking together does prevent any one on one contact. As long as there are seperate shower facilities between males and females...and adult leaders from scouts( parents with their OWN children is outside YP policy control)

 

But the thing is, the children are covered and safe as can be reasonably expected in these circumstances as well as all adults.

[BartHumphries]

I imagine virtually every organization who has had adults working with youth have, at one time or another, had the problem of an adult preying on a child. I imagine that most of them, decades ago, acted the same way. I'm not excusing them or saying that they shouldn't be held accountable for the emotional trauma which might otherwise have been prevented, but it was a different time with unfortunately different practices.

 

This is why there is such an emphasis on two-deep leadership in Scouts -- do not let yourself be in a position where such an occurrence is even possible. Nowdays, we know about the abnormally high rate of recidivism for sexual offenders. We live in different times and a transgression in that regard will now ban a person for life. We can be thankful that people are more willing to call in the police.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

[RememberSchiff]

Instead of using the less than cooperative Catholic Church response, what if the BSA

 

1. Asked for a federal prosecutor and handed over the "perversion files". Since the 2006 Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act, crimes against children have no statute of limitation. A federal offense against a minor can be prosecuted at any time, even after decades have passed.

The following federal criminal charges have no statute of limitation:

* 18 USC 2241. Aggravated sexual abuse. Engaging in a sex act with a child who is younger than 12 years old is punishable by a minimum sentence of 30 years to life in prison. The same penalty applies to sexual conduct with a child who is between 12 and 16 years old if the defendant is at least 4 years older. See subsection ©.

* 18 USC 2242. Sexual abuse. Engaging in a sex act with any person by force or threat of force, or where the other person cannot legally consent, is punishable by life in prison.

* 18 USC 2243. Sexual abuse of a minor or ward.

* 18 USC 2244. Abusive sexual contact.

* 18 USC 2245. Any sexual abuse that results in death.

* 18 USC 2250. Failure to register as a sex offender. The penalty is not more than 10 years prison under subsection (a).

* 18 USC 2251. Sexual exploitation of children. The sentence is mandatory prison of 15 to 30 years. See subsection (e).

from /www.federalcriminallawyer.us

 

2. lobbied to remove the statue or limitations for child abuse and sex crimes at the state level. Some states have, e.g., Florida did last year in spite of the Catholic Church. Other states, e.g., Oregon, Washington,...have not. Anyone have a list of states that have removed the statute of limitations?

 

My $0.02

[Engineer61]

This website lists the Statute of Limitations for all 50 states for Child Abuse.

 

http://angelroar.com/2010/09/foradults/c-child-abuse-resources-adults/childabusestatuteoflimitationsbystate

 

There are different limits for Civil vs. Criminal actions.