Using SCOUTER.COM for a systematic political agenda

[Oak Tree]

Systematic political agenda. Whoosh. Guess I missed it.

 

I think that we've gotten to the point where there is pretty much always one active thread on gays. It lasts until everyone has said all they want to, it dies out, and then a slight variation pops up.

 

So let's take a quick look at who started all those threads.

 

Tough questions - sherminator505

When will National realize this *IS* affecting membership - Trevorum

Florida School Board Rejects Grant - Merlyn

Which lifestyles are acceptable? - Engineer61

Where does BSA tell us homosexuals are not allowed? - Shortridge

Potomac Falls woman removed from sons Boy Scout troop - Merlyn

So a Scout tells you - Basementdweller

 

That's a pretty diverse set of posters, and that's not counting all the participants who weigh in on one side or the other.

 

You can find threads on this topic from lots of others, too. I think that it's not so much that there is a systematic political agenda as it is that there is a current political issue that gets mentioned in the news from time to time and always gets lots of responses when posted here.

 

Just looking at those who started various threads:

 

5yearscouter - how would your troop handle a rumor of a bisexual scout? - Posted: Tuesday, 8/9/2011

SequoiaWDL - Another Victory for Freedom of Association? - Posted: Monday, 6/6/2011

jblake47 - Homosexual Scouts- Posted: Thursday, 5/20/2010

shrubber - Another gay man plans to sue BSA Posted: Wednesday, 10/20/2010

Joni4TA - homosexual behavior is automatically disqualifying Posted: Tuesday, 10/16/2007

SaintCad - Questions about homosexuality in BSA- Posted: Wednesday, 5/31/2006

Beavah - The other thread (for those wanting to discuss homosexuality) - Posted: Thursday, 10/21/2010

TomTrailblazer - A possible solution to the gay issue - Posted: Wednesday, 11/17/2010

Scoutfish - The Gay, Communist, Gun Club! - Posted: Wednesday, 2/24/2010

bkale - Boy Scouts vs. Philadelphia - Posted: Monday, 12/1/2008

fgoodwin - Gay rights vs. religious beliefs - Posted: Thursday, 8/24/2006

 

It goes back a long ways.

Prairie_Scouter - So, What's so bad about being gay? - Posted: Monday, 5/16/2005

eisely - The local option on gay membership in BSA - Posted: Thursday, 5/29/2003

bluecrash - Gay Lifestyle vs. Good Rolemodel - Posted: Monday, 6/10/2002

littlebillie - this just in... - Posted: Wednesday, 11/6/2002:

tjhammer - Scouting's Real Gay Policy - Posted: Saturday, 2/9/2002

dan - gay leaders - Posted: Tuesday, 11/19/2002

Mike Long - How do you approach the Gay issue? - Posted: Monday, 2/12/2001

 

I'm willing to bet these people are not all part of any system, albeit that they all serve to keep the topic alive. I'd say if you don't want to see this topic being discussed, you shouldn't look at this forum.

[sherminator505]

@fred8033 - Yes, I spun a thread out of I/P. I did it for a specific reason which you might get if you re-read my original post. I have observed that over the years the BSA seems to have transitioned from an organization centered on citizenship founded on strong values to an organization centered on values with nominal energy directed toward preparation for citizenship. This might appear to be a minor or subtle perception, but I felt that it merited exploration through a lens that is not purely political.

 

So, when I started the Open Discussion thread, I was looking at the shifts I have noticed in the BSA in the 20+ years I have spent as a Scout and a Scouter. Now, exactly how much of these shifts are simply geared toward marketing to a certain demographic and how much represent a genuine ideological shift is unclear to me. What is clear to me is that there are some who would use Scouting itself for advancing a systematic political agenda, and quite frankly that bothers me a whole lot more than what anybody might say on any of these threads.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[fred8033]

Ya know, one of my all time favorite courses in college was a Philosophy dept Logic course. And perhaps, I'm guity of a causal falacy. Perhaps, it's just a hot topic spurs debate. Just interesting.

[WAKWIB]

fred8033: Topics frequently worked on these forums to the point that they appear like an obsession? Yes. A systematic political agenda? No.

Like all internet discussion boards, our Issues and Politics section is a safe place for folks to rant and rave about stuff. I mentioned in another thread that the BSA homosexual policy doesn't, in my experience at least, get a lot of discussion in real life conversation. I suppose that folks feel more freedom to discuss such things in a forum like this, and I would bet that very few of the folks here have personally taken up the issue with National.

It is a foregone conclusion that there has been a quite a cultural change in America over the last 40 years, and most of the forum members are good Scouters trying to understand how it all, one way or the other, affects a program that we invest a lot of time in.

[shortridge]

Don't know why people feel the need to out others on this board. Besides, it's been done multiple times over the years.

[fred8033]

I requested my post be deleted. I should not have done that. I reacted wrongly to my discovery.

 

It wasn't really "outing" as there was nothing to out. His information was directly linked thru fireside theater and his name directly used on ScoutingForAll.org and Atheist Nexus. It was more of a personal enlightenment that I shared.

 

I reacted the same way I reacted when I learned a relatively new friend only invited me over to bring me into his Amway network. I was thinking we were all scouters here discussing our scouting experiences.

 

It was wrong of me. I should not have posted direct names or links. I hope the site admin can delete them.

[packsaddle]

Fred, it's not exactly a secret, as Shortridge notes. I'll take care of the deletion in a few minutes.

 

Edit: I've deleted that post. I'm noting this here in case anyone detects a discontinuity just before Shortridge's post.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[JoeBob]

LisaBob:

 

Sorry, joined the discussion late.

I don't think that Liberals make more compelling arguments. I think y'all just type so much better than we old farts!

[Papadaddy]

"compelling argument" from a lib? Can't think of any...

[sherminator505]

Pappadaddy, that finger in the eye won't soon be forgotten. I am trying VERY hard to remember that you are (presumably) a fellow Scouter and to temper my responses accordingly.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Tampa Turtle]

This the point around the campfire where talk of Dutch Ovens begins, the use of parchment paper, and what we will cook for breakfast. Maybe fishing or knives or funny things we overheard that the boys said.

[John-in-KC]

This is Issues and Politics. You don't have to enter here. There's a specific caution that the content is not "of the program" of Scouting.

 

In other words, you take things with a grain of salt here.

[Tampa Turtle]

True but we should also follow rules of decorum, as Scouter Terry wrote "be Scout-like."

 

I was merely making a suggestion.

 

However you are correct.

[drmbear]

I'm here because I'm a Scout, and Eagle Scout, a Cub Scout Leader, and I expect I'll be continuing with this path for some time. Some of these issues about positions that BSA has taken kinda bother me, though. So I know I find myself in the middle of some of these discussions. It really bothers me that Scouting considers citizenship a core value, we pride ourselves on Scouting's role in creating good citizens, but then Scouting upholds a principal of discrimination that that goes against core government and business ideas about what it means to be a good citizen. So heck yeah - it may be a rehash - it may even look like a "systematic political agenda," but I see it as trying to get Scouting to find its way out of principals that I see as outside the Scout Oath and Law. When I notice those discussions, even when I am looking around and find an old discussion that sparks my interest, then maybe I will feel compelled to make a comment. I've never been one to just stand around and let something I care about slide further into stupidity (in my opinion).

[fred8033]

drmbear ... IMHO, your exactly who this forum is looking for as participants, a scouter who's looking for support and to make scouting better. This old "systematic political agenda" thread was re-opened because I realized in another thread one of the posters had 3500+ posts over ten years, all on one topic, BSA discriminization. He's a member on scoutingforall.org and an atheist social networking site. And, he's not even a scouter. He's just hear to tell us what BSA is doing wrong. Discussions get hijacked from interesting subjects to just focus yet again on the same worn out topic.

 

Now many of us wish BSA would get out of these political firestorms as it's not really an internal issue in scouting. There are some easy policy changes BSA could make to avoid the issues, such as BSA focusing on program structure and leaving membership choices to the charter orgs ... as they mostly do already.

 

BUT, it's a different thing to troll daily for the opportunity to post the evils of BSA. If ya want to do that, then also post your favorite dutch oven recipes. Or your favorite camping treks. Or which boots allow your feet to breath and also protect you ankles. Or how to handle scout medical forms. Or tell us about when a wind storm snapped the fiberglass tent poles.

 

Just don't be a one act play that's repeated over and over and over again.