That anti-intellectual thing

[packsaddle]

"You know, we don't need a lot more anthropologists in the state. It's a great degree if people want to get it, but we don't need them here. I want to spend our dollars giving people science, technology, engineering, math degrees. That's what our kids need to focus all their time and attention on. Those type of degrees. So when they get out of school, they can get a job."

 

OK, I'm going to sweeten this deal by giving you a link to Mother Jones. The thought of some of you actually following that link is just delicious.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/10/rick-scott-liberal-arts-majors-drop-dead-anthropology

 

He must be kidding...who else is going to ask if we want to supersize our orders? Archeologists?

[Beavah]

Not sure where packsaddle is comin' down on this, since he's a science fellow. Happy to see his colleagues in da social sciences get the gubernatorial shaft?

 

I think there are some mostly wasted departments at some large state universities, and some mostly wasted non-major fluff classes even in good departments. A little bit of pruning or insisting on intellectual rigor might be appropriate.

 

It's just a bit ironic to be completely dissin' the liberal arts the week that the most successful CEO in the world (in terms of shareholder value gains during his tenure) is memorialized for explaining that he was successful because of his liberal arts background and ability to combine computer technology with the liberal arts to produce human-friendly design.

 

Somehow, I reckon I'll take Steve Jobs word on the matter over a fellow who wasn't nearly as successful in business.

 

B

 

[shortridge]

As a former liberal arts major (history, dabbling in political science), I sometimes wish I'd gone into a vocational field. The skills I use in my day job as a journalist were mostly self-taught or picked up in a newsroom. History classes gave me a great, deep background that helps me understand current events and put them in context; doing research on 1960s U.S. diplomatic cables taught me how to evaluate sources and dig. But none of that got me my first job. That came from many late nights at the campus newspaper office.

 

I saw far too many people slide through four years of college without any marketable skills except "critical thinking." They knew how to write and argue. But so do hundreds of thousands of other kids hitting the job market every spring.

 

If I were designing a college program, it would involve two years of liberal arts and two years of training in some practical, hands-on field - graphic design, plumbing, emergency medicine, carpentry, environmental services, physical therapy, child care, nursing, even journalism. If they wanted to take either of those to a higher level, they could. But at least they'd graduate with some solid skills to enable them to get a job.

[packsaddle]

Beavah, I wanted that to appear ambivalent. What I didn't expect was for you to be the first to respond.

I'm on the side of the market here. Of course I see the need to promote STEM fields. However, those are greatly enhanced by the ability to express ideas and communicate effectively (liberal arts). Society is enhanced when there is a broader appreciation (as Steve understood) outside strictly technical details, also liberal arts. Life is bigger than a gas turbine. (Sorry, recently in a turbine manufacturing facility)

 

I support letting market forces control the flow into different fields, as opposed to agenda-driven political decisions. Students and families can view the broader situation in terms of immediate needs and future trends and then make their own best decisions about where to focus their interests. Market forces will make these opportunities and needs apparent and individuals can make their best choices freely. Bad decisions will be quickly corrected by that same market.

 

I am opposed to politicians making these decisions FOR the people. I especially oppose it when, as seems to be the trend, those politicians are profoundly ignorant of both education and the consequences of their decisions. If, for some market reason, a huge number of Floridians see bright futures as anthropologists (or any other field) then a governor should support THEIR needs as expressed by their choices, not HIS political interests.

 

I stood in the presence of a governor a while back, while several educators received awards for their achievements and contributions to public education at all levels. The only words that governor could find for this occasion were to complain that his college-age child was considering NOT attending an Ivy League school in favor of a public university. What a guy! He was ignorant of education, including STEM..and, evidently, the concept of tact. This governor was profoundly incompetent to make decisions regarding education in his state and yet he did, to the detriment of public education at all levels.

Florida may be about to enjoy similar favors from theirs.

 

Edit: Shortridge, I understand your message. Part of that is the 'greener grass' tendency. I think you'll agree that while becoming a top-notch welder would bring a job and groceries to the table, it might not provide the broad view needed to assess that job market or to invest wisely for the future. I could say the same thing, for example, for someone who never set his/her mind outside the chemistry lab. I think this is one of the reasons that BP saw the need for broad experiences in scouting. I see it reflected in the breadth of requirements for advancement, always requiring service, technical skills, and reflection. I'd have to say it has more in common with the liberal arts than STEM.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[SR540Beaver]

I have no issue with a liberal arts education. I got one. I didn't put it to work though. I ended up in data processing and info technology for the past 32 years. That being said, between my niece working on her doctorate in medieval literature and my son working on an engineering degree in fire protection and safety technology, I'll put my money on his long term prospects. She's going to have to wait for some old codger in a college somewhere to die to find a low paying job. Kids in my sons field of study have jobs waiting when they get out of college.

[ScoutLass]

Well, I'm not much for believing that the point of education is to feed the factory. Our youth need an education so they can create meaningful jobs, not become the cogs in a corporate dinosaur. Of course, I am an anthro major, so what do I know

 

The issue, in my sincere opinion, isn't wasted liberal arts degrees. It's too many kids going to college when college is of no benefit to them. It's kids not growing up until they are in their 30s. It's the basic unsustainability of an outdated educational system that's the problem. Well, those things and the fact politicians really shouldn't be deciding what our youth should and should not know and learn.

 

Of course, some of the most successful and well-educated people I've had the pleasure of knowing never went to college.

[skeptic]

Just my own thought with no known studies with which to support, but I think almost any college grad that had to actually work their way to their degree is likely to succeed at some level. Simply the knowledge gained in having to fend for oneself. Sort of like the scout whose jamboree is given to him, versus the one who had to earn most of it, or not go.

 

Maybe if parents put a condition on their kids that they must earn at least 25%, or more, of their education, the kids would appreciate what they were getting and put in an more honest effort. Of course I mean real work, not a gimme of some family friend or relative.

 

But, just my opinion as someone that would not have gone to college if he had not worked for most of it. My parents basically paid my rent the first month I went away, and fed me when I came home on break. Then, after my time in service, I had G.I. benefits, but still worked almost full time.

[Tampa Turtle]

Sigh...I hate to even talk about Scott...sigh.

 

I agree that it should not be up to him. A good education is important.

 

I think it all depends. I have degrees in "the Arts" (Fine Art and Architecture) but married a mathematician and computer scientist who subsidized it. That said I worked at a university with many scientists (I made a better manager than they did --go figure it out). My wife is very good technically but really managed to go through school (and she was an academic star) with almost no background in civics or american history.

[perdidochas]

I think on this issue, Governor Scott makes sense (he doesn't always). We don't need nearly as many liberal arts majors as we have. We need more scientists and engineers. The only thing we need liberal arts majors for is to teach electives for science and engineering majors.

[Trevorum]

I was forwarded that news feed yesterday and just rolled my eyes.

 

I'm an anthropologist and have been gainfully employed as such since I recieved my first degree in 1975. Working in the private sector, I now direct a department of 15 other anthropologists. We are busy, profitable, and provide a valuable service to our clients.

 

But there are never enough jobs in anthropology for all the graduates that are produced by college and universities. Resumes cross my desk routinely; I hire the best and let the others find their own career paths. Some of these find work with other firms, others stay underemployed or change careers. I sorta figure it's that way in any industry.

 

[SeattlePioneer]

When my nephew was a high school senior, he receive admission to the Computer Science program of a good, nearby university plus a tuition scholarship. He would have been abkle to live at home and attend school.

 

 

However, he also got admission to a fine liberal arts college, where he would be living at school and his parents paying full freight and top dollar for everything. He choose the liberal arts college. Hey --- why not?

 

 

I pointed out to him at the time that Computer Science degree grads probably had ten job offers for every grad, while there were probably ten liberal arts grads for every job --- a difference of 100-1 in terms of job opportunities.

 

He chose the lieral arts school, and graduated this year with a BA in the Arts --- music.

 

He actually had a gig for two months this summer, teaching in a children theater program and playing in the orchestra for their theater production.

 

Nothing since then.

 

His parents paid $50,000/year for tuition alone, plus living costs and other expenses.

 

The "anti intellectual" charge is bogus, used by those who think young adults can afford to ignore the realities of economics and the labor markets.

 

The fact is we crank out far too many of those folks, and dump them into an economic system which makes it tough for them to find a job and may doom them to unemployment or low wage jobs unless they abandon the field they have been trained in.

 

Of course SOME will find their dream job and dream career. But too many are going to be profoundly disappointed in their career hopes.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[BadenP]

 

The entire article was slanted, biased, and poorly researched to begin with. The interviewee IMO is not very intelligent to begin with, and this is really just his opinion which shows him not be very well educated himself. More right wing propaganda from a biased right wing publication.

[Twocubdad]

Last winter, in the throes of college applications, I ran across an article on "predatory lending" by colleges. A NYU graduate was complaining that the school had used predatory lending practices to get her into debt far beyond her ability to repay. The school had the nerve to notify her anytime an new loan program opened, of if she somehow qualified for a larger loan amount. The girl had something like $250,000 in student loans, her mother's house was hocked to the hilt and she couldn't repay the loans.

 

Of course she had attended NYU, one of the most expensive schools in the country (I know, OneCubSon considered it for about two seconds), live in Manhatten for four years, majored in Womens' Studies, then moved to San Francisco and took a job as a receptionist in an art gallery.

 

Clearly, the university was at fault for her financial hardships.

 

Conversely, one of my sons greatest lessons learned in high school was from his art teacher. A really great guy, this fellow took out student loans to attend Savannah College of Art and Design at a clip of $40k per year. Graduated and got a job teaching high school art. His constant **** ing about not being able to pay the rent, put new tires on his car, or go out for dinner was a far better lesson in economics than the actual AP Economics course my son took.

[CalicoPenn]

Even the Florida Institute of Technology offers programs in psychology, humanities and communications.

 

I seem to recall someone else eliminating the humanities and soft sciences from uiversities - who was that again...Oh yeah, Mao Zedong (better known here as Mao Tse-tung).

 

Do Flordians know they elected a Communist as Governor??

[SR540Beaver]

Perhaps I missed it. I don't see where Scott wanted to eliminate arts and humanities. I do see where he wants to shift spending more towards the sciences that will help the citizens of his state and our nation in being competitive in the global market.....not to mention better paying jobs. My son is an engineering student and he is doing the requisite arts and humanities course that all colleges have. He'll get to read poems and listen to music along with learning about his chosen major.