Local YMCA boots troop over gay issue

[SeattlePioneer]

For the special swim, the city owned and operated pool was staffed by city employees, but only female staff were assigned to the swim. That was the intentional act of the pool management.

 

It's a clear violation of city ordinances, state and Federal law, but they do it anyway --- because no discrimination ordinances often create uncomfortable situations that prevent people from doing what they want to do. People think that if their hearts are pure they can ignore those issues.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Seattle Parks & Recreation charges an hourly fee for lifeguards when pools are rented out, so presumably the people renting the pool get to specify who they want to hire for lifeguards, just like when the Seattle-area naturalists rent out a pool for a naked swim would choose lifeguards who aren't alarmed by naked people swimming. Doesn't look like a violation to me.

[vol_scouter]

SeattlePioneer is right. The lfet will never be happy with the Boy Scouts because they hate the values that Scouting represents. Changing the policy on homosexuals or atheists will garner few new members from the folks who use that as an excuse for their children not to join. Some areas may see a small increase in membership with the change. However, the numbers leaving in some sections of the country will be legion. The Canadian experience will likely be considerably worse in some sections of the USA. That may change with time but it is the case right now.

 

So SeattlePioneer, how does scouting attract asian and hispanic youth and retain the program? The current efforts for hispanics seem to make scouting into a soccer league. If scouting has to lose its' identity, why do it?

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello vol Scouter,

 

 

My council gave Soccer and Scouting a good try, hiring a District Executive whose mission was limited to promoting the Soccer and Scouting program. He left the council last December, and the Soccer and Scouting program doesn't seem to be getting the attention it was getting.

 

I don't really know for sure, but my impression is that it is an experiment that is winding down.

 

My own interest and goal is to find the methods that will allow traditional Scouting programs (English speaking Scout units primarily) to attract and retain Hispanic youth and families in significant numbers.

 

Frankly, I don't know how to do that. My aim is to find out. I had the Hispanic DE who headed the Soccer and Scouting program scheduled to do a Cub Scout Roundtable scheduled to do a Cub Scout Roundtable seminar on Recruiting and Retaining Hispanic Youth in February, but he left the employment of the council before that.

 

I have been promoting this goal (also a national and council goal) among Council staff and the Council Membership Vice President, but I haven't attracted much real interest so far.

 

My district executive has been promoted and interviews are being held for a new DE. I've been promoting the idea of hiring a Hispanic DE who could help develope methods of recruiting Hispanic youth.

 

Also, the Hispanic DE who left the council is now back in the employ of the council, so I'll be asking him to do the Roundtable seminar again. He'd make an excellent DE for my district too.

 

In short, I don't have good answers, but I think I have good questions that deserve answers.

[SeattlePioneer]

Well Merlin,

 

 

When you rent a pool for an hour you rent the pool under the Federal and State laws, city ordinances and park department rules, all of which prohibit sex discrimination.

 

 

It's amusing to see people try to excuse violations of anti discrimination rules when they stand in the way of things they want to do. All of a sudden the principle isn't very important.

 

Of course, this was equally true for issues like affirmative action for racial minorities. The idea of color blindness in hiring was rejected by the liberal left as soon as they got it enacted into law. All of a sudden they wanted racial quotas as a standard for measuring "non discrimination."

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

SeattleBunioneer writes:

When you rent a pool for an hour you rent the pool under the Federal and State laws, city ordinances and park department rules, all of which prohibit sex discrimination.

 

Are you sure that private parties have to follow those rules? That would prohibit BSA units from renting a pool, or a classroom, because they discriminate on the basis of sex, religion, and sexual orientation.

 

If someone wants to rent a pool for a birthday party, does the nondiscrimination clause mean they have to admit the general public to their party? If they don't, are you claiming they would be breaking the law if they only invited girls (or boys) to the party?

 

I'd like a cite for your assertion; I don't think you're correct.

 

[Scoutfish]

Yeah SP, I'm gonna side with Merlyn on this one: If I rent a pool for a private function, I will probably have to follow state and federal laws that are in support of safety issues and other things dealing with harm.

 

But as a private individual, if I want to rent for my son's birthday, I should be able to say only boys , only between ages 10 and 11 and who are in his class at his school.

 

Merlyn should, have the right to hold an athiest only party, and you could have a party only for ....whatever it is you like.

 

Discrimination is a tricky thing. Just because I do not invite everybody, it does not mean I discriminate. It';s not about keeping others out, but amassing ( for a temporary time or specific function) a group of like minde or common connection. WE are not there to hold favor against others, but to have a favorable event amongst ourselves.

 

There is a difference.

 

Just like if you want to invite a friend to go jogging in the park with you - you are not going to invite everybody just because it is a public park.

 

[vol_scouter]

ScoutFish,

 

Certainly, if private groups are allowed to rent the pool, then all can. The rub would come if lifeguards are required which is likely. So if the group uses the pool's lifeguards, they should not be able to discriminate. They could hire their own lifeguards, which once again they cannot discriminate. Only if the group has life guards as members who have the correct training could the group be able to discriminate. I would aver that they only allow those lifeguards that they deem appropriate and do indeed discriminate illegally. However, since the groups are the 'right' groups, i.e. left leaning then no one considers it an issue who can actually get it before the public. Just my supposition on that.

[vol_scouter]

SeattlePioneer,

 

You seem to be on the right track. The values of Scouting should be appealing to the hispanic community based on their core values. So part of the problem is likely to be trust and another could be a loss of control. We will need members of the hispanic community to help make the case.

[SeattlePioneer]

Yes, if people rent the pool they can invite whom they wish.

 

 

As vol scouter notes, the rub is when the city engages in acts of employment discrimination against its lifeguards and other staff in order to accommodate the wishes of a private party. That is a violation of employment law at a minimum.

 

When the city becomes a party to being a partner of this program by hanging posters on city property to promote the event or distributing brochures promoting the event and being named as a sponsor in the promotional materials, that seems like a prime facie case of a violation of the city's non discrimination laws and park department rules.

 

And as I noted, there are a number of other do gooder sponsors, most of which no doubt have anti discrimination rules of their own which they are violating.

 

They clearly feel free to ignore their own rules when they choose to do so. They apply their non discrimination rules in a discriminatory way.

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

vol_scouter writes:

They could hire their own lifeguards, which once again they cannot discriminate.

 

On what do you base this? Most antidiscrimination laws in the US apply to private organizations that employ 15 or more people.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

SeattlePioneer writes:

They clearly feel free to ignore their own rules when they choose to do so. They apply their non discrimination rules in a discriminatory way.

 

So are you planning to file a lawsuit?

[vol_scouter]

Merlyn,

 

So organizations with 15 or less employees could discriminate by hiring temporary lifeguards as independent contractors. If they use a commercial firm or the government running the pool, then they cannot. It is no surprise that Seattle Pioneer confirms that the left does not observe its' own laws.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

So organizations with 15 or less employees could discriminate by hiring temporary lifeguards as independent contractors.

 

I agree, but that isn't what you wrote before:

The rub would come if lifeguards are required which is likely. So if the group uses the pool's lifeguards, they should not be able to discriminate. They could hire their own lifeguards, which once again they cannot discriminate.

 

It is no surprise that Seattle Pioneer confirms that the left does not observe its' own laws.

 

When did "the left" end up managing all public pools in Seattle?

 

[SeattlePioneer]

I suspect the chances are about zero that the City of Seattle is going to let some other outfit supply lifeguards for their pool when the pool is rented out. They aren't going to want that liability.

 

This is a red herring designed to try to escape the issue raised. The lifeguards at the pool during these women only swims are city employees and the city excludes men from these job assignments.

 

Frankly, this is exactly the kind of invidious discrimination that is most offensive. It makes city government a partner with Muslim claims that women most be protected from having portions of their bodies seen by men. Since we have laws and rules that prohibit sex discrimination by the city, the city should 1) not discriminate against men in making work assignments based on sex and 2) should not partner with the sponsoring organization by posting notices promoting this event on city property, being listed as a sponsor on brochures, or distributing brochures on city property.

 

I have no objection to private groups renting out the pool and inviting whom they please.