Local YMCA boots troop over gay issue

[Oak Tree]

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/07/04/2258430/ymca-says-boy-scouts-must-leave.html

 

I would prefer to be associated with an organization that was not so frequently in the news over its gay policy.

 

From the wording in the article, I think they are saying that the YMCA is the chartered organization and the troop has one year to find a new CO, entirely due to the BSA policy of not accepting gay leaders.

 

I think this type of decision can only become more common over time, as more local and national boards of non-religious organizations consider their relationship with BSA in light of their own non-discrimination policies.

[Horizon]

I won't just be non-religious organizations. More churches are looking at their policies regarding gays and lesbians, and changing as well. For example, I don't know how Charters the Covenant Network Presbyterians hold, but at some point they might have a problem too. I know that my church will START a Troop and a Crew the second the BSA allows the Charter Org to follow their faith in applying the Morally Straight clause.

[Eagledad]

>>I know that my church will START a Troop and a Crew the second the BSA allows the Charter Org to follow their faith in applying the Morally Straight clause.

[fred8033]

Oak Tree wrote: "I would prefer to be associated with an organization that was not so frequently in the news over its gay policy."

 

Agreed. It's a headache. I'd wish BSA would remove themselves from this debate. Leave this decision to the charter org since the charter org owns the unit and already selects the leaders. Unit leadership can then reflect the values and teachings of the charter org.

 

The perception of discrimination and bigotry hurts membership and invites ridcule. I say "perception" because I know several leaders with alternative lifestyles. As with any leader of any life style, I expect them to not advocate, educate or make political any sex related topic and direct the scouts to discuss those topics with their parents or religious leaders.

 

Internally, it's a non-issue. Scouts don't teach sex education. The closest is the Family Life MB where your required to discuss with your parents "the growing-up process and how the body changes, and making responsible decisions dealing with sex." Internally, there's no hostility or advocacy one way or the other. It's just not on the agenda.

 

(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[SeattlePioneer]

The City of Seattle and it's parks department have the usual litany of protected groups --- but how does it work in practice?

 

 

City pools organize special pool swims aimed as Muslim groups. That means swims at which only women are permitted to swim, and men are prohibited from serving as lifeguards or other staff during such swims.

 

The windows are blacked out during such swims lest a man might observe women swimming.

 

That violates a bunch of different city codes and rules, but of course it doesn't matter.

 

These swims are sponsored by a laundry list of community groups, most of which have elaborates non discrimination codes as well, which they ignore to gratuitously sponsor these swims.

[packsaddle]

This CO is divided on this issue. Used to be a non-issue.

[shortridge]

Seattle,

 

The Times reported six years ago that the swims to which you refer aren't organized by the city. Instead, groups rent the pool and pay a fee. So the Boy Scouts could do the same thing, rent the pool for an evening and ban girls, if it liked.

 

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002389078_muslimswim.html ("Access to these pools is not free; the groups, like all others that use these facilities, pay a rental fee.")

[skeptic]

As constantly suggested, local CO decision; it becomes a non-issue. But, it still is pretty petty from my perspective, as the only people being effected are the kids in the troop that need to find another CO and place to meet. Their meeting there hurts no one.

[Engineer61]

I'd suspect that this will end up being a highly variable based on regions and demographics.

[Eagle92]

Even if you went to a CO's choice option, you would lose scouts and COs. When Dale was still to be heard by SCOTUS, I had one CO adamant that they did not want anything to do with the BSA if it allowed homosexuals in. Their concerns were that even if they selected heterosexual leaders, other COs could select homosexual ones, and it went against their beliefs and values. So even though Dale hadn't been heard, they dropped the pack and didn't start the troop they were going to start.

 

And after Dale was decided in the BSA's favor, Scouting for All turned out to be the council I was in best recruiter. They staged a protest outside the council offices, which was visible from the interstate. The council got lots of phone calls from folks who thought BSA lost the case, saw S2A protesting, and called to get their sons registered.

[vol_scouter]

Chapel Hill is a very liberal small town that is dominated by the main campus of the University of North Carolina so it is not your typical YMCA.

 

Eagle92 is correct. Many Scouts and Scouters will leave the BSA overnight if a local option is allowed. Many parents feel that the BSA is too liberal as it stands today. These are not Mormons and are working class to well educated professionals. I contend that many parents say that they will not allow their children to join scouting because of its' stance on homosexuals are using that as a handy excuse and would not allow their children to join no matter what the policy is. So if your CO chooses to keep the same policy on homosexuals, what will their reaction be when at a camporee or other large scouting event their children see openly homosexual leaders who are over their children? The fight will go from the BSA with a small though vocal minority group (

[Oak Tree]

In December 2007 the YMCA/YWCA sponsored 441 units. In December 2010 it's 401, for a decline of 9%. (Total units are down from 121,000 to 115,000, a decline of 5%.) It's impossible to tell if any of those YMCA units moved or if they just closed.

 

I would think that some PTAs may go this route too. The National PTA specifically says that they will "Foster programs and practices that eliminate bias, prejudice and misunderstanding within their communities" and that they will "Propose change wherever discriminatory practices are perceived" and they specifically recognize sexual orientation as an aspect of diversity.

[shortridge]

Some COs would drop the program, to be sure. And some conservative parents would immediately start the American Heritage Boys.

 

But there's a whole group of new GenX and GenY parents out there who have avoided Scouting precisely because it discriminates. They would join in droves if the conservatives lost this battle in the culture wars.

 

A former college classmate has a young son who'd love Cubs. But one of her best friends, a woman whom her son calls aunt, is a lesbian. His mother is on the board of the local GLBT youth organization. They're not among that two percent, but there's no way in heck they'd join Scouting at present.

 

I know lots of folks like that. Their daughters are in GSUSA, but their sons sure aren't in BSA.

 

The bottom line is that there's no way to quantify the pluses and minuses on either side of the argument. Any guesses we make are just that, guesses.

 

A hundred years from now, or even 50 years from now, our kids and grandkids are going to look back at all the fighting over gay marriage, Don't Ask-Don't Tell, and BSA membership, and ask what the heck the big deal was.

[Eagledad]

>>The bottom line is that there's no way to quantify the pluses and minuses on either side of the argument. Any guesses we make are just that, guesses.

[The Blancmange]

>>>>>Sure there is, Campfire, Girl Scouts and Canadian Scouts. None of those organizations have ever got back to the numbers they had before they accepted gays. Why would the BSA be different?So if your CO chooses to keep the same policy on homosexuals, what will their reaction be when at a camporee or other large scouting event their children see openly homosexual leaders who are over their children?