Airport checking and frisking kids and babies

[5yearscouter]

I know women who have had to remove tampons and pads in order to get thru security, because the nakey scanners see them as something scary. Yeah, I'm not sure that kind of thing increases our security one iota.

 

If you believe that the pat downs make us any safer, then why not full strip searches or body cavity searches? I do not care if the TSA agent does or does not get pleasure from feeling inside of someone's underwear, it sure gives them a lot of power over us. I dislike the illusion that we are telling our children that it is ok for complete strangers to feel of your body parts without your permission in order to gain a favor(flying on an airplane).

 

Agreed that flying on an airplane is not a right guaranteed by the constitution, but we do have protection in the constitution against unreasonable searches and seizures. yet we get on the plane, let them search our bodies and seize our tubes of tooth paste in the name of security?

 

While TSA continues to miss the big things, guns and knives on planes, while checking out someone's tampon for explosives.(This message has been edited by 5yearscouter)

[scoutingagain]

" yet we get on the plane, let them search our bodies and seize our tubes of tooth paste in the name of security? "

 

And we've seen what the alternative is. The argument over the government's role and responsibility to protect it's citizens from those who would use transportation systems to cause harm is not the same as argument over the effective implementation of that responsibility or the abuse of that authority by individuals.

 

SA

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

And we've seen what the alternative is.

 

Nah, not at all.

 

Da problem of guys with boxcutters or other small hand weapons takin' control of a plane to run it into buildings was solved in October of 2001 by hardening the cockpit doors and door locks. Ever since then the sort of attack used on September 11 has been impossible. And actually, if yeh think about it, even without hardened cockpit doors 9/11 became impossible on 9/11 with Flight 93. Up until then, the advice given passengers and crew members was always to go along with hijackers, because they tended to be odd, confused sorts of people and that was the safe thing to do. After 9/11, the standard response became for passengers and crew to aggressively resist. And that, by itself, without any additional security, would prevent another 9/11. As demonstrated when Akhmed the Village Idiot tried to blow up his shoe and was immediately taken down by his fellow passengers. The strength and safety of America is its citizens, not its government.

 

So da TSA security theater does nothing to prevent another 9/11. That problem was solved on 9/12 by simple changes to cockpit doors and how crews and passengers respond.

 

In fact, from what was found in Bin Laden's place, Al Queda long since recognized that and moved on to other targets like trains. You'd be amazed at da dangerous toxic gunk transported by rail across this country. The right hit and we'd be evacuatin' whole cities.

 

So all TSA is accomplishin' is making folks annoyed and frustrated by unnecessary and irrelevant security measures. That doesn't enhance our security, it weakens it, eh? Because real security depends on an alert, responsive, and collaborative citizenry. The sort of things that America and Americans are best at, at least when they're not bein' harassed and distracted by government agents feelin' up their daughter or their grandmother.

 

Beavah

 

[Beavah]

If flying is just to aggitating for people, they can drive, take a bus or ride in a train.

 

And where does it end, ScoutFish? Yeh don't need to fly for your job, I get that. So you don't feel it's important to protect your fellow citizens who do. I get that, too.

 

But we saw in Oklahoma City that yeh can do quite a bit of damage with a car or a truck, eh? So can I send my federal agents to da end of your street to take your car apart and frisk your wife randomly? After all, driving on government-provided roads is a privilege. If she doesn't want to be subject to frisking she can walk or ride a bike. Too bad if that costs her her job.

 

Anyone who lives in a town near train tracks could potentially be carrying a bomb that could derail a train and kill hundreds or thousands of people. So no walkin', skateboardin', or biking without being X-rayed and frisked by passing government agents whenever they want. After all, walkin', skateboardin' or biking is a privilege unless you're on your own private property. If yeh don't want da aggravation, yeh shouldn't live in any city or town or part of da countryside served by rail lines, or yeh should stay home. Too bad if that costs 90% of the country their jobs and homes.

 

And if yeh don't think that givin' government agents that kind of power will inevitably lead to abuse, I point yeh to the entire history of humanity on the planet. Allowin' da federal agent to frisk your wife means allowin' the guy two years ahead of your daughter in school to "frisk" her repeatedly for fun once he puts on a uniform. Allowin' da federal agent to delay you means allowin' da Obama federal agent to delay a Republican adversary and his family. Don't think for a minute that all of the neighborhoods or people chosen for "random" security checks are goin' to be random.

 

So where does it stop? How much abuse of your fellow citizens, how much dismantling of American Liberty are yeh willing to tolerate in exchange for no demonstrable improvement in security whatsoever?

 

That's why we have da 9th Amendment, eh? The right to travel, to make use of public conveyances and such without undue impediment is in fact a right. Allowin' Congress to infringe on such is fundamentally unAmerican or at least not very conservative, which some might argue amounts to da same thing.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[WoundedFox]

5yearscouter: "If you believe that the pat downs make us any safer, then why not full strip searches or body cavity searches?"

 

The TSA has publicly stated that they have the authority under current law to subject every single airline passenger to a full strip search. I believe they would be doing it now if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Personally, I don't fly when I don't have to for my job. The "need" would have to meet a very high bar before I would put my wife or kids on a plane, and I certainly will not be responsible for taking scouts onto a plane these days. (Others from my unit have, and as long as parents are adequately informed, I don't have a huge problem with it. Parents and scouts need to make their own decisions on this.)

[packsaddle]

The following analysis essentially agrees with what Beavah just wrote: http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110629-seattle-plot-jihadists-shifting-away-civilian-targets?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20110630&utm_term=sweekly&utm_content=SECtitle&elq=5434b5683c3944ac8d27eace912fce91 This site normally costs but this particular article was free so I'm sharing it. Pay particular attention to the last sections starting with, "Vulnerabilities".(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[packsaddle]

One more for the list. So I'm going to another country with an X-ray-proof pouch for sensitive film. I have no problems on the way out. On the return, I get to the USA and during the second TSA screening, they stop me because of the (now empty) pouch.

"What is in this?"

"Nothing"

"Why are you carrying it?"

"I took some sensitive film to (its destination) and now I'm returning with the empty pouch."

"Can I examine it?"

"Yes"

The guy opens the pouch and looks at the empty interior.

Now...the good part: He informs me that he will now put the same pouch that caused this extra concern because they couldn't 'see' anything with the x-rays...back through the x-ray...so they can't see anything again.

When I try to think of a term to describe this, 'thoughtless' just doesn't quite say it.

[Pint]

Weve had uniformed Scouts frisked and checked at airports before in the past, although the staff at Amsterdam Schipol are/have been amongst the most freindly and effecient out of all the airports that i have been through with Scouts, we even got a breif explanation on how the body scanner worked - something about back scatter and some one in a remote room checking the images and highlightng areas to look at on a figure, although they were more interested in the baggage X ray machine.

[Woapalanne]

They are getting more and more ridiculous. Our local airport just announced that we are going to have to remove our BELTS when we check in. Is there really an explosive that can be concealed in a bleepin' web BELT???

[NJCubScouter]

Woapalanne (that's the name of my council's OA lodge, #43, but I see you are in South Carolina, so ?)...

 

anyway, I had to remove my belt (along with my shoes) the last time I flew.

 

I have even had to remove my belt a few times when going through security at a courthouse. My attorney ID card ("don't leave home without it") used to get me past all of that nonsense (at courthouses), and usually it still gets me past at least the belt-removal and similar indignities and time-wasters, but not always.

[packsaddle]

Belt removal has been in place for several years, at least in my experience.

[Woapalanne]

Shoes I can see, and metal belt buckles.... but belts? That's just nonsensical. (I didn't have to remove my belt at LAX last fall, nor at my local International airport... until now.)

 

NJCubScouter: my username is my Vigil name. English: eagle. Dates from 1977.

 

And, by the way folks, it is NOT unusual to see Jewish people in the South. We have three synagogues in my town alone.(This message has been edited by Woapalanne)

[SeattlePioneer]

Are TSA reps being thorough and checking the contents of that baby's diaper?

[packsaddle]

"And, by the way folks, it is NOT unusual to see Jewish people in the South."

 

I live in the South and I can't seem to pick them out of the crowds. Help me out, exactly what should I look for?

I'm not good at spotting homosexuals either so it might just be me.

BTW, what stimulated that comment in the first place?

 

I actually have a note in my travel record that I had to remove my Camp Old Indian nylon web belt for the TSA back in 2006. Charlotte, NC. And every time since then. I think you just got lucky.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Packsaddle,

 

 

Look for one of these:

 

http://www.yamulke.com/