Airport checking and frisking kids and babies

[Papadaddy]

In an effort to be "fair and balanced", it has since been reported that removing the adult diaper from the elderly cancer patient so that TSA could inspect it was actually the daughter's idea. She just wanted to do anything to speed up the process so that Mom didn't miss her plane and cause more stress. The sad thing is that Mom was ever put in that position to begin with.

[Beavah]

Well, not actually, PapaDaddy.

 

TSA officials said "various options" were given to Reppert and Weber during a private pat-down to get her through the checkpoint.

 

But Weber said the only option was to not get on the plane.

 

"They did not give any options except that they could not clear her with that wad in her diaper," Weber said. "My only option was to remove it."

 

Weber took her mother to a bathroom and removed the diaper. Her mother boarded the plane without any underwear because there was no time to buy anything and there were no extra Depends in her luggage.

 

"At that point, by the time they finally cleared her, it was about two minutes to flight time," she said.

 

Weber said the missing the flight was not an option because of her mother's medical condition: she has cancer and needs medication and blood transfusions.

 

Fotenos refused to divulge the other alternatives available to Weber and Reppert.

 

 

This is a classic example, eh? Which is more important to us as Americans? Freedom or (the illusion of) security?

 

Beavah

 

[Scoutfish]

So it comes down to it being the TSA's fault because somebody did not plan ahead and/or allow extra time for something they must have been completely familair with in trheir particular instance.

 

I mean, come on, When I was fresh from my cancer surgery, I had to wear my "chesticles" 24/7 .

 

Of course, my chesticles were JP Pratt drains. They were hand grenades shaped and sized rubber bulbs that had 1/4 inch tubes that were sewn inside my body to drain excess blood and other odd bits of scraps that were resultant of having surgery.

 

I did not fly after having surgery. But I did have a conversation with my wife on the way home from the hospital about those two hand genade sized objects that looked like they could be strapped to my chest. I even mentioned that they sure would set of alarms once somebody felt them.

 

Okay, the original subject was getting frisked by a state trooper as she was speeding down the interstate in order to hurry up and get home. We both looked like crack heads since I was going home one day after surgery and she hadn't slept but 3 hours in a 24 hour period.

 

 

But just like in this site, the conversation evolves/devolves into other things and airport security came up ( we passed at least 4 airports on the 4 hour drive home).

 

And we even talked about my wifes sister who will wait til it's time to be somewhere before she leaves her house and then have to make 6 side stops. She will be late, but of course, it is everybody else's fault that she had to stop get gas, get a latte' , get some fries at a drive through, etc..

 

But it's not her fault if, being late, she does not fit within the time line and schedule of something that affects 200 people ( a passenger train as a matter of fact)

 

So again, did the woman and her mom not plan ahead? Seems the TSA actuallt gave several options, just not the ones the passengers wanted.

 

And anothyer sidenote..It damn sure isn't the TSA fault that the people didn't hyave a spare Adult garmet. Guess they planned on the woman wearing the same one all day long. Good thing she didn't go #2 or else she'd be either wearing it or going without anything on after all anyways.

 

Bad planning , but not on TSA"s part.

 

And again, it all comes down to something we say in this forum all the time, the greater good of all by far outweighs the enjoyment of one person.

 

And we are not talkiing about a God given or constitutional right here either. We are talking about a conveinence and priveledge....nothing more!

 

 

[Beavah]

Yep, that's it. The ability to conduct a commercial carraige transaction with a private provider is just a convenience and a privilege. So what you're sayin' there is that the government can interfere with any private transaction it wants to, eh?

 

The ability to travel... just a convenience and a privilege. So da government can confine you to your state/city/neighborhood anytime it wants to, eh?

 

I think the country you're lookin' for is Iran, mate.

 

Remember, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

 

Beavah

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, but it's not so privare when you board a plane with 300 other people and depart from a facility with over 1,000 people walking around. Add to the fact that these planes go acrss state and national boundarys, go to foriegn nations, and that any incident does not just affect the individual who bought the ticket.

 

But using your logic, I should be allowed to make a nuclear bomb as long as I pay cash for the materials from private individuals, keep the components and all materials on my own private property and do not seek public or government input or assistance?

 

Likewise, if I operate my own motor privately owned motor vehicle, powered by gasoline that I bought with my own cash, and my vehicle is insured by my own money...then I shouldn't have to worry about a driver's license or silly things like DUI charges or anything like that , right?

 

 

WEll, of course not, Because my actions can and will affect others who are in athe public and common areas outside my own personal private property.

 

You might have made a private transaction with a commercail buisness, but from that point on, every step of that process takes place in the general public of each state as well as across other peoples private/ state/ federal property and commonwealths.

 

And supposing I decided for whatever warped reason to decide it was my duty to blow a plane up - even though I made a private transaction with a commercial entity - my actions will directly affect a tremendous amount of the public and greater good of many state and National citizens.

 

""The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

 

And yes, flying in a commercial jet IS NOT a right. It is a priveledge. You do not have to fly. You do not have a situation where you have no other options.You have numerous options , not limited to : buses, trains, PRIVATE OWNED VEHICLE, bicycle, walking,jogging, running, skipping, motorcycle, moped, skates, skateboard, canoe, row boat, jon boat, sailboat, schooner, clipper, steam boat, U boat, gravy boat, etc....

 

But flaying is quicker, easier, possibly cheaper depending on your alternative methood, and is just more conveinent...but not a dire necessity nor a God given and/or Constitutional right.

 

But let a jet explode over your locale . Let some people you know get hurt. Let people - who just happen to be along the flight path who are not passengers nor have made any transaction with that commercial enterprise - get killed due to an individual who had a bomb or weapon...will you still cry fould over government "intrusion"?

 

And has it happened before? Yeah it has.

 

9-11 sound familair?

 

Bet if you asked all the families and friends of those who died that day if they would like to have some of that government intrusion in place that morning and see what answers you get?

 

And you do nknow that of all the people who died, the majority were not people who made private transactions with a commercial enterprise. They had nothing to do with flying whatsoever except having a big ole jet plow into them, make a building fall on them, or die while trying to rescue thoise who were hurt,injured, or hurt due to that jet.

 

The people in the Pentagon, in the two towers ( and surrounding buldings), and all the police and firefighters who were killed were not part of a "The ability to conduct a commercial carraige transaction with a private provider "

 

 

[packsaddle]

This link might be messy:

 

[Eagledad]

I was surprised to hear this on the news because I have found the agents who check and compare the boarding passes to IDs to be very thorough. AND how did the out dated ticket get by the airline ticket agent?

 

Barry

[scoutingagain]

"The ability to conduct a commercial carraige transaction with a private provider is just a convenience and a privilege. So what you're sayin' there is that the government can interfere with any private transaction it wants to, eh? "

 

Not any private transaction, but when the mode of transportation can be turned into a weapon of mass destruction capable of killing thousands of innocent citizens I'd say representative government not only has a right but an obligation to protect the public at large. Transportation is a privilege when it can threaten others, whether it's a government required driver's license or security surrounding private carriers or public transportation. As a citizen you just don't get to go anywhere you want, any way you want if it has the potential harm others. It's why there are government standards for cars, highways, trains, planes etc. Be realistic.

 

Or we can wait for the big EMP pulse to wipe out all automated transportation and go back to travelling on foot. Don't know how much govt security was around in N. America before say 1492.

 

SA

 

 

[packsaddle]

Barry, one of the other associated videos is about the effectiveness of TSA. Evidently during tests, about 70% of prohibited items make it through. One guy unknowingly had a loaded .40 automatic make it all the way through to his destination in his carryon. He discovered his mistake later at the destination. Sigh, if ONLY he had been wearing a diaper...this would not have happened.

[Beavah]

Sigh.

 

How quickly we forget that any power or right we surrender to the government can be used by that same government against us and our family/friends as to "protect" us. If yeh want a government that controls commercial transactions and travel, yeh need to move to China. Or just take a look at what's goin' on in places like Syria right now. Or look at uniformed agents of the government abusing elderly cancer patients, groping children, and harassing fellow citizens.

 

I think we have to be careful about eroding rights that we as individuals don't have personal interest in. If you've never protested anything, then it's easy to say "you don't have to assemble to petition the government for redress of grievances." If you've never written anything, it's easy to say "you don't have to write and publish freely in the press." Yeh can always talk quietly in hushed voices in a private closet in your house.

 

Same with non-enumerated rights, which are inherently public, not private. You personally might not have to travel or fly, but some folks most certainly do have to fly. They have jobs that require it. They need advanced medical treatment only available elsewhere. Da bulk of paid commercial air travel is business travel, not vacations, eh? Yeh can't take your skateboard to the business meeting in NYC. Just because you don't happen to value a particular right or activity, doesn't mean that it isn't vital to someone else... or to the economy/nation at large.

 

People I know are being hurt, eh? Elderly women are being abused. Children are being groped. Uniformed agents are harassing our fellow citizens, like packsaddle and his students. On and on. Real harm. Real damage to society. Occurring every day.

 

And all being endorsed and condoned by well-meaning but foolish folks who will ignore any real, present harm because they are wet-their-pants-terrified of fictional risks from a mostly defunct bunch of upset goat herders in the Afghan mountains.

 

I reckon perhaps we've been too wealthy for too long in da U.S. We need to be reminded that strength comes not from protecting what we've "got", but by protecting who we are.

 

I agree 100% with JoeBob, eh? Ten private companies doin' different things and responsive to the airlines whose business relies on maintaining the goodwill of da passengers would be far more effective... and polite.

 

Beavah

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[skeptic]

Hey, they do a fine job at Burbank. I lost my beard trimming scissors before the change in that element; and recently, they had no problem taking my 4 ounce tube (half full) of fungal salve when we went to Vegas.

 

Last summer I felt bad for a jambo SM who had two boys forget to put something in checked bags, one was a pocket knife I think that was in his pocket, one of the extra small ones so popular in current scout shorts. They had these kids with 3 agents, as well as the SM. They were still there 20 minutes later when I left the area. Once determined it was a simple mistake, you would think it would have been solved.

 

"Common sense", I yearn for your return.

[Eagledad]

>>Once determined it was a simple mistake, you would think it would have been solved.

[scoutingagain]

"If yeh want a government that controls commercial transactions and travel, yeh need to move to China. "

 

I worked in Shang Hai some 20 years ago on business. Had to take a cab to the plant every morning. The only way I could survive the ride without wetting my pants from all the close calls the driver had with the lack of any kind of respect for traffic laws or regulation was to close my eyes the entire 20 minute ride. Made Boston drivers look positively sane.

 

I'll take the rules of the road enforced in the good ole US of A. Even here in Mass.

 

SA

 

 

[Beavah]

LOL. Yah, it's not so much da rules of the road as it is the culture of (relative) driving civility.

 

Yeh should try Greece sometime, SA. It'll make your Chinese experience look like sedate grandmothers driving.

 

Beavah

[Scoutfish]

"How quickly we forget that any power or right we surrender to the government can be used by that same government ...."

 

Yeah except one important detail: That wasn't a right to begin with.

 

Scoutingagain said it well.

 

There are rights we have, and rights we wish we had or THINK we have. Flying in a commercial jetliner because it's just more convienent for us is not a right.

 

Just like oprisoners who want their own personal jar of crunchy peanut buter or people who think they can make pipe bombs willy nilly as long as it is on their own property.

 

Not a right. Never was to begin with.

 

Priviledge? Absolutely. And I have no problem for anybody to use that privelidge. But to get uypset and gallop around on a high horse like society owes us the ability to rush on a plane that travels over a big chunk of the American population ( and by this, I mean public and not your personal property) without a simple amount of precautionary inspection or accountability on our part.

 

As a responcible society, we need to realize something we have been spouting off on for ages: FREEDOM ISN'T FREE! It comes with a cost.

 

And it's not limited to just battlefields either. We have laws, we have rules, we have obligations and we have processes that need to be followed.

 

If flying is just to aggitating for people, they can drive, take a bus or ride in a train.