Airport checking and frisking kids and babies

[OldGreyEagle]

Anybody lose any friends in Viet Nam because they stopped to give candy to a kid who was the "booby trap"?

[Papadaddy]

@Old Ox...sure they can go to the funeral...just don't let them kick the back of my seat for 4 hours, while you nap obliviously 2 rows up. As a frequent flyer, my problem is not with the kids, it's the idiot parents.

[nolesrule]

"As a frequent flyer, my problem is not with the kids, it's the idiot parents."

 

First thing I do is let the people sitting in front of us know that if my kid is kicking their seat to let me know, so I can do something about it. It can be easy to miss, especially if you've got more than one kid. Not only is that being a responsible parent, but it let's the people around you know you're going to be a responsible parent, and puts them at ease.

[CalicoPenn]

Some would say the GOP convention is itself a terrorist act.

 

[Eagledad]

As frequent flyer, I've gotten pretty good at what I should wear throuh the metal detectors, but I experienced my first X-ray check. Good news was no trace of cancer or broken bones. Bad news was they found a pair of plastic reading glasses. That trggered the proceedure to send my obviously plastic reading glasses through the X-ray by themselves and me have the first body frisk of my life.

 

My other complaint is the inconsistency of TSA personell. I have been told loudly by a cranky elderly woman that I had to separate my IPad and computer for X-ray at one airport and scolded to perform the opposite procedure at a different airport.

 

I don't know if it is normal, but the security personnel in Canada are very pleasant and seem to enjoy their job.

 

I have developed a lack of respect for the TSA through my experiences, but a few weeks ago while my wife and I were in the Phoenix Airport waiting for our Oklahoma City flight, we sat near enough to hear a discussion between TSA agent and a person he was escorting who obviously needed some help mentally negotiating the airport. Turns out both men were Marine Vets and both had been injured in Iraq. The gentleman who required help was going to a Marine olympics for injured retired Marines in Oklahoma City. The discussion between the two men talking about the friends they lost and their for love our country had my wife in tears. That one TSA agent made up for all the bad form of the others.

 

Barry

[Basementdweller]

You guys are silly.....

 

Don't fly.....

 

We, the citizens of the United States, are spoiled beyond words.

 

Would you be happier with no checks at all. As OGE pointed out, extremist would think nothing of sacrificing their child or baby to take out an airliner.

 

The reason this is a big deal is flying is for the rich and very simply the rich don't like to be inconvenienced or hassled in any way...... The poor are hassled like this daily.

 

In the hood, the boys are rousted out and lined up and patted down fairly regularly, hanging out on the corner.....LEO will say they got a complaint and then line the neighborhood kids up and pat them down and lecture them...... My son and his friends have been stopped and patted down a couple of times, the store clerk at the circle k said she had kids shoplifting.....

 

Could you imagine that happening in the rich suburbs? no way.

 

 

My point......Rich guys get over it.

[Scoutfish]

"..paranoia of people like scoutfish is that it causes an unnecessary panic among the people."

 

Except one thing: It happens all the time. You ever read a story about a guy who runs into the airport and everybody sees the big bomb wrapped around his chest? Nope, you sure don't!

 

That guy hides it the best way he can. So what is the best way to hide something? You put it where people themselves wouldn't think to hide such a horrible device. Put it where people have not lowered themselves to such a level.

 

Yeah, that means babies,, pets, elderly, etc.

 

And no, it's not a what if, but a "it's been done already".

 

You listen to the news? Read the papers? Women and childrren are already been used by Al Qaeda..not only just against us, but their felow countrymen .

 

Again, when planning for the nemy, you have to put yourself in his state of mind, not your own. You have to plan by his gamebook and the rules he follows, not your own.

 

And I think somebody said it right, it's the rich who are inconvenienced...just like they are with regular every day things like stoplights, rules, etc.....

 

As for the children:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article6135887.ece

 

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j7bAPfPt_86sbBYKrAVuuhIMhsvg

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/mar/23/20070323-103216-5326r/

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327052/Kamikaze-canines-The-sick-Iraqi-terrorist-plot-bomb-U-S-plane-exploding-DOG.html

 

 

About that being paranoid...............

[scoutingagain]

As a wise man once said, just because your paranoid, doesn't meant they aren't really out to get you.

 

Al Qaeda's dream is a blue eyed tow headed Chechen baby in the arms of a caucasian American mom converted to radical Isam. And don't think for a minute there aren't terrorists that are doing nothing but thinking about how to make their dreams come true.

 

But I tend to agree with JoeBob. The next attack is more likely to involve a less secure target than aviation, and that's precisely because of the hassles involved at the airports. As a frequent business traveller I'm more than happy to put up with the hassle for any little additional security it provides. Having said that I do believe TSA personnel could use a little more "sensitivity" training in how to deal with the public. I personally only fly now when I have to. If there is any other reasonable mode of transportation that will get me to the same destination within a day, I'll avoid the airport.

 

And Basementdweller makes a valid point, while flyers may not be "rich" by some standards, they are a population that is not used to getting hassled.

 

SA

[Papadaddy]

As a DOD civilian, when I have to fly I always use my DOD ID (CAC card) as my picture ID. Maybe it's my imagination or just the luck of the draw, but things seem to go smoother for me than for others. Or maybe it's because I always try to be pleasant and cooperative with those trying to do a tough job for little pay.

[Scoutfish]

Now, I see no reason or justification for personel to act rude or hostile.

 

They can still do their job while being pleasant about it. Matter of fact, maybe they should be given classes on how to be more freindly and pleasant..which in turn will cause passengers to do the same.

 

Funny how just keeping your attitude in check can change everything. I fopund that staying calm, keeping my voice pleasant and even help tremendously through the years as a firefighter /EMT as works today with customers at my job.

[Basementdweller]

Just curious, Do you actually think the TSA employees enjoy patting you down????

 

Personally, no way. I especially don't want to feel up your 80 year old mother in law or her sweaty fat son Felix.

 

It is a job.

 

They pat down 30 or 40 people a day. So they are patting down 200-300 people a week, tough to be nice an courteous when MOST people treat you like crap and an inconvience. My attitude is Just grab my junk and be done with it.

 

BTW I am one of those sweaty fat guys.

 

Yes I have been patted down a couple of time, it isn't that big a deal.

 

The parents of that girl who was Traumatized, have already succeeded in raising a very neurotic little girl. She is gonna be a treat when she gets to be about 13.

[desertrat77]

Papadaddy, thanks for your observation, read it with great interest...I'm a DoD mil guy (AF), and I find TSA security checks a mixed bag.

 

The DoD CAC helps sometimes, as does travelling in uniform. Last time I went thru Dulles, I got in the back of a long line awaiting the TSA check. So I figure this is as good a time as any to check the blackberry and get some work done.

 

A TSA agent comes up, says get yer stuff, and takes me right to the front of the line. Very nice, didn't ask for it, but sure appreciated it as those minutes saved proved invaluable in getting a seat on my next flight.

 

On the other hand, I've been given the deluxe security check too, even with the CAC (was in civvies).

 

Like I said, mixed bag.

[nolesrule]

No, I don't think they enjoy patting people down in general.

 

But an extra patdown here, an extra bag search there. Sending someone to the back of the line, rather then just having them go through again right away. Having a perceived position of power over the passengers and abusing it every now and again by inconveniencing those in their charge intentionally? It adds up and can stroke their egos, reinforce their perception of power, all under the guise of safety.

 

Do I think it happens often? No, but it does happen.

 

What's the point of a random patdown anyway? If you aren't profiling to select your patdown "victims", you might as well not be doing patdowns at all.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Nah, I know they don't like it. And I can imagine that it's not just checking people in general...but also checking people who really stink, people with awful hygene and people who are walking crud carrying "Typhoid Mary's" with everything from a simple cold to a flu to a highly contageous intestinal virus.

 

But it's a give and take situation. If you treat passengers with contempt, they will throw it right back at you.

 

Of course, it goes the same way for the passengers. If passengers took 3 seconds to realize that these checks are for a reason and not just to create long lines of people.....and kept the snide comments and rediculous dramatics to themselves...the screeners might not give attitude back.

 

 

And you know..most of the time...it is our own spoiled nature and lack of thinkiing about anybody but ourselves ...that leads to this problem.

 

For example, My wife is a manager of a gas station/convenience store on a beach. It's the only one on a 17 mile beach. And gas prices are ridiculously haigh because it is on the beach. The store sells the gas for the gas company who sets the prices. The store makes 3 cent a gallon off the gas.

 

Yet every other customer who comes in teh store thinks that whoever is behind the cash register is responcible for the price of gas. Really? Do you think that if I was making a million dollars in quarterly profits - as compared to Exxon's first-quarter profit of $10.65 billion ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/28/us-exxonmobil-idUSTRE73R35O20110428 )...do you think I would sit behind that counter taking crap from people?

 

Anyways, we tend to get an attitude of " I am the hand that feeds you so you owe me" , and also a "I am outraged that you personally are screwing me by making me follw the rules that everybody else has to follow.

 

See, I don't want to have to stand in line and get groped by security people at an airport either. But I also know that this practice didn't start yesterday, that events like 9-11 are a big reason that this is done..and ultimately, I do not have to fly nor is it a constitutional right to fly on a plane .

 

Easier and faster than driving/train/bus? Yep, you betcha! But is it a vital necessity? No, it's a priveledge. One that comes with a cost.

 

So, if you have to fly, wether for pleasure or a job, then you already know what is going to happen. Why treat security people like it's there fault?

 

And if you maybe say hello and smile..or at the very least, not give them crap for doing what they are paid for..they might smile back and treat you the same way!

 

And the thing is, even if you are late because you had a flat tire, your boss made you late, or traffic was unbelievably bad..it does not make it their fault or responsible for it. And it does not change the fact you still have to go through the screening.

 

You know what it comes down to?

 

MANNERS

[packsaddle]

Scoutfish, The evidence that I see seems to support Twocub. It's difficult to review some of the antics I've seen and experienced and conclude that they contribute to greater security. I've been on flights in which passengers depart the plane, go through the immigration lines (still a secure area) and then are forced to exit and go through the security screening process again for their next flight. Heelllloooooo! We just got off a plane. If we were going to blow something up we already had our chance. I've been groped as many as 5 times for a single trip (this most recent one), one crotch-grabber was even within direct sight (about 20 feet away) of the previous one. The claim that they don't want to do this just falls flat.

 

My student - the one who got put through the mill for drinking the water - wasn't alone. I and the rest of the group sat waiting patiently while we watched this ridiculous process. There wasn't a single impolite word spoken by my group (actually no words at all - just stunned silence). But I questioned them when we arrived at the gate. What they had witnessed had made a very strong negative impression on them. Thing is, none of that nonsense added anything to security...by needlessly consuming the time and attention of the TSA, it could very well have detracted from security. The good samaritan who handed my student his water bottle...he just left shaking his head.

Stuff like this - from x-raying paper napkins to putting a compliant young person through the mill - can only breed contempt...it seems patently obvious that TSA has contempt for us.

If no one likes groping great-grandma, then don't do it. Or at least don't do it every single time. (except, of course for my MIL, I get too much pleasure from her embarrassment)

What the heck does TSA expect to get if they treat people like this?