Investigations of CIA interrogators

[eisely]

nldscout,

 

Why don't you let us know how you really feel?

[acco40]

I don't give a damn about some stinking lowlife terrorist life. If killing 100 of them saves one servicemans life then so friggin be it. If what you call torture saves lives then good. Go join the bleeding hearts somewhere else.

 

That's the problem in a nutshell. Civilians who try to judge servicemen who have not had their experience and servicemen who still have the "at war" mentality due to their experiences.

 

I would urge everyone to watch Restrepo, a National Geographic award winning documentary about the death of Pfc. Juan Restrepo. Look at what the platoon leader faced in trying to identify "bad guys" from locals. Not an easy task. So ndlscout, should we torture every Afghani local we find because some percentage will provide useful information that will save our soldier and marine lives?

 

Why do you think the Bush administration utilized Gitmo and labelled those they brought there as "enemy combatants" and for the "worst" took them to foreign soil in Europe or who knows where to apply their special interrogation techniques?

 

For myself, yes, I just fall into the following category - Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

[packsaddle]

Acco40,.....you do know that was just a movie, right? Just like the moon landing?

[acco40]

Seriously? I thought the Joker went to a plastic surgeon and turned his life around.

 

My favorite movie quote of all time?

 

Dupea: I'd like a plain omelette, no potatoes, tomatoes instead, a cup of coffee, and wheat toast.

Waitress: No substitutions.

Dupea: What do you mean? You don't have any tomatoes?

Waitress: Only what's on the menu. You can have a number two - a plain omelette. It comes with cottage fries and rolls.

Dupea: Yeah, I know what it comes with. But it's not what I want.

Waitress: Well, I'll come back when you make up your mind.

Dupea: Wait a minute. I have made up my mind. I'd like a plain omelette, no potatoes on the plate, a cup of coffee, and a side order of wheat toast.

Waitress: I'm sorry, we don't have any side orders of toast...an English muffin or a coffee roll.

Dupea: What do you mean you don't make side orders of toast? You make sandwiches, don't you?

Waitress: Would you like to talk to the manager?

Dupea: ...You've got bread and a toaster of some kind?

Waitress: I don't make the rules.

Dupea: OK, I'll make it as easy for you as I can. I'd like an omelette, plain, and a chicken salad sandwich on wheat toast, no mayonnaise, no butter, no lettuce. And a cup of coffee.

Waitress: A number two, chicken sal san, hold the butter, the lettuce and the mayonnaise. And a cup of coffee. Anything else?

Dupea: Yeah. Now all you have to do is hold the chicken, bring me the toast, give me a check for the chicken salad sandwich, and you haven't broken any rules.

Waitress: You want me to hold the chicken, huh?

Dupea: I want you to hold it between your knees.

Waitress: Do you see that sign, sir? Yes, you'll all have to leave. I'm not taking any more of your smartness and sarcasm.

Dupea: You see this sign? [He sweeps all the water glasses and menus off the table]

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Acco, I must apologize for all the bad things I have thought and said about you, apparently you DO know Jack after all...

[JoeBob]

 

The policy of 'Non-Interogation' is actually getting the people you want to protect, killed!

 

Why would the US kill bin Laden before interogating him? Imagine the information that was in his head! Apparently we had bin Laden, and shot him dead:

"The president introduced the subject of the weeks great accomplishment in the war on terror by mentioning the sense of unity that had prevailed in the country after Americans learned about the operation that resulted in the capture and death of Usama bin Laden.

 

Applause at that moment obscured the detail the president had let slip: that bin Laden had been subjected not only to death but also to capture. One of bin Ladens daughters, only twelve years old, breathed further life into this notion when she told Al-Arabiya that U.S. forces had indeed captured her father, and shot him dead within the first few minutes of the raid."

 

Since Obama banned 'harsh interogation' the SEALs knew that he would never be questioned, and every ACLU lawyer would vie for their 15 minutes of fame trying to get Osama out.

May as well shoot him and save the taxpayers a few dollars.

 

Me? I'd have duct-taped a slab of bacon in his mouth and flipped him out of the chopper at 500 feet.

Wanna bet on how many rotations we get before impact?

[acco40]

Why is everything based on political affiliation?

 

Republican Peter King, chairmen of the Homeland Security Committe, stated that waterboarding proved pivotal to "smoking out" bin Laden.

 

Democrat, Dianne Feinstein, chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, stated that none of the intelligence that led the CIA to bin Laden's hideaway came as a result of harsh interrogation practices.

 

The National Security Council stated that if they had "smoking gun" intelligence from waterboarding in 2003, the US would have taken out bin Laden in 2003. They stated that it took years of collection and analysis from many different sources to enable them to find bin Laden's compound.

 

I'm not in the camp of the ends justify the means. I'm sure that brutal interrogation methods produced useful (and not useful - some will say anything to make pain stop) information but I agree with the current administration that condemns (at least publically) it's use.

 

What if the CIA had found bin Laden's wife and children in the compound and not Osama himself? Is it justified to take one of bin Laden's children, point a gun to their head and demand information on bin Laden's whereabouts from his wife - regardless if the child was really going to be shot or not?

 

paraphrased from: http://www.freep.com/article/20110505/COL04/105050496/Brian-Dickerson-Osama-bin-Laden-s-death-does-not-validate-torture (This message has been edited by acco40)

[eisely]

As a society we DO believe that the ends justify the means. That bridge was crossed when the Minutemen first opposed the progress of the British at Lexington in April of 1775. It is now a question of sorting out all the grey areas.

[acco40]

Maybe it's a matter of interpretation, but to me "the end justifies the means" leaves no grey area. Thus my opposition.

[SR540Beaver]

I know this is the issues and politics forum where we have a little more leeway, but some of you should be ashamed of your behavior.

[Scoutfish]

Wow! Tough topic for sure.

I am of mixed felings and I also know that there is a difference between saying what I would do, and what I would actually do if I am in the situation myself.

 

As far as waterboarding and torture...if we do it, are we not then no better than the ones we claim to be fighting? At that point, it isn't good against bad anymore, just us versus them.

 

I mean, we say we are agaist opther countries governmenmts that abuse people and fredoms, but we think it doesn't apply to us in our quest to be the country we want to be. But are the other countries any different? They are doing whatever means they feel needs to be done to maintain thier status quo.

 

So, we are the same with a different name.

 

 

But then, I also realize it's easy to sit here and nit pick and judge whithout being in a position or responcibility and burdone myself.

 

I'll put it this way> I do not believe in murder. I do not belive in "crime of passion" either...but I also know that if somebody was to kidnap my son or wife and torture, rape or maim them..I would have no issue or putting that person through their own hell. I could easily kill thenm or issue a dose of eye for an eye.

 

Having a loty of time to think about it afterward, I may very well realize what I did was wrong, and I may very truely be remorseful for acting on it.

 

But atbthe time I ws to learn of such a thing...I cannot say that I wouldn't go beserk and seek revenge.

 

Maybe that's just a human reaction, no?

 

Acting based on passion, and later regretting based on compassion and intellect.

 

 

So, just sitting here safe and sound in my living room, I do not find and torture to be reasonable for a respectable society.

 

But I also realize that when I personally lose a family member or I am the one in real and deffinant imminat danger ( being a soldier) I may feel and react differently.

 

 

One last thing: I alsways wondered why we insist on sticking to and playing by the rules ( Geneva, UCMJ) of war when our agressors do not follow, care , or even use our own rules ( read limitations) against us.

 

Inst that just what war ios: An all out who conqeurs who?

 

 

[Basementdweller]

we had a similar discussion about caning.

 

 

Say your son is caught doing something questionable.....would you want him subjected to this kind of questioning?????

 

If your answer is yes then ok. If your answer is no, you need to look at the double standard you are living with.

 

I am not ok with torture as a form of interrogation.

 

Run the scout law.....see how the belief that torture if it is ok.....or is the scout law something that you endure while in uniform.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[evmori]

OK so some of the info we got from the interrogations helped rid the world of an extreme murderer and terrorist. I have no problem with that.

[Basementdweller]

so ev.....doesn't that make us the terrorist???

[JoeBob]

How does waterboarding an enemy violate the scout law?

 

You can TRUST that my LOYALty to my country and family HELPs me to question our Al Quaeda FRIENDs in a COURTEOUS manner. I'll KINDly ask them to OBEY my CHEERFUL requests for information so that I can be THRIFTy with the water. My conscience is CLEAN because I'm BRAVE enough to accept that being REVERENT to my God sometimes requires that I not defer to their god.