FScouter Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 "Mission Accomplished", so it has been said... Killing begets killing. Nothing has been accomplished except a furtherance of death and hate. Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. Gandhi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle007 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 How Does this Change the War on Terror? It changes absolutely nothing! Who is next - Quack Daffi, Kim Jong Il...? The world police will continue to fight the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Yah, well, perhaps that's so, FScouter. Still, I drank a toast last night to the president and to the men and women of da nation's services. I lost friends on 9/11, good friends who left families behind. While I'm not fond of da death penalty within a civilized society, when yeh don't yet have a civilized society yeh sometimes do what yeh have to do. It is lack of justice which begets killing and hate. There is a time for every purpose under heaven, and Justice is a cardinal virtue. This was naught more than justice delayed. And if it makes someone else think twice about wanting to live in fear in darkened rooms for 10 years only to die an ignominious death cowering behind his wife, all the better. It's been a good year so far. Ben Ali, Mubarak, Bin Laden. Here's hoping we can keep up da streak. Quaddafi, Saleh, Assad, Zawahiri. To quote Clarence Darrow, I have never killed a man, but I have read some obituaries with great satisfaction. But what I find truly hopeful is that an entire generation of young middle eastern men (and women) are being defined by their desire for a peaceful, relentless struggle against corrupt dictatorship rather than by religious violence against the West. Those are young people to respect, eh? And pray for, and support where we can. Because in the end, all those who are willing to sacrifice for freedom are our friends and allies. And there's nuthin' wrong with teaching 'em that years of hard work and sacrifice will eventually bring justice to those who would indiscriminately kill civilians. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 BadenP - my apologies if I misunderstood your intent. When I read "might" I assumed bringing the military to bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Beavah I agree with you 100% in your assessment of Osama, but Frank also brings up a valid point, with the killing of BinLaden we have also created a new "martyr" for all those radical extremists who would do us harm and lit the fire under them to action. I listened to the Islamic clerics who were upset that Osama's burial at sea was a violation of Islamic religious law and an insult to all of Islam by the USA. This was followed by the angry protests in Libya over the killing of Khadafhi's son and grandchildren, and demanding retribution and wondered to myself when and if this killing will truly ever end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I don't think it matters that we're created a new martyr in Bin Laden. I think Bin Ladens been a Martyr-in-Waiting for a long time now, and he would be a martyr even if he died of natural causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 That was a great quote by Darrow. It goes onto the favorites list. When I heard that the President was about to speak last night, I woke my wife up to tell her and she didn't even get mad at me. FScouter, I do understand that really, the mission is almost never complete. That banner was good enough for Bush a while back and less deserved then than now, so I invoked it. I do know that there are always going to be 'bad guys' out there and as Beavah noted, we have to continuously push back. I do not agree that pushing back is why they are there. The 'growing up' that I did in the South taught me that persons with no reason whatsoever can decide to hurt other people they don't even know - and enjoy it. Friends of mine that I played with in cub scouts went on to relish killing innocent civilians in VietNam and returned to brag about it. Others decided they hated black folks and claimed to do horrendous acts to them. I have known several men who killed for the thrill of killing and bragged about the n***ers they had killed. These acts were not the result of being pushed or hurt or opposed by anything. The absence of any consequences gave them the freedom to act on their worst desires and then to brag as if it didn't matter. I don't even credit bin Laden with that level of act. He, at least, was driven by anger and hatred over the 'invasion' of his lands by infidels. His mind was very clear about this and he was completely honest about his intent. He decided in his mind that he would not tolerate the long-term presence of infidel troops in his country and he struck at us in the most effective way he could. But his acts were rational and calculating, not mindless or pointless or gratuitous. Killing begets killing only if there is someone who wants to kill in response and no one else is there to prevent it. Edit: I add, as I described in another thread on this topic quite a while back, I am amazed to read in THESE forums, how many there are who would do NOTHING in response to 9/11. Amazed.(This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAKWIB Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Gee, we might actually have a case of resurrection. It was widely reported (assuming if Fox reported it, so did dozens of other news outlets) in late 2001 that Bin-Laden died from an illness. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html I guess he came back to life for one last and futile stand-off with America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Told ya so..... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/us/politics/05binladen.html?hp Not that photos would be proof of anything other than mastery of computer imaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS-87 Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 It's important to be able to provide undeniable proof of such momentous actions. And so we decided not to bomb the compound so we could remove the body. It's important so that you can refuse to provide undeniable proof of such momentous actions. And so our government threw the body in the ocean and will not release the photographs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I know I'll get a lot of flack for this but the internet does provide some level of protection. Truthfully, I was surprised the citizens of the United States had such a celebratory response to the killing of Bin Laden. Yes, I'm glad he was found and prevented from causing (directly) any more harm to our countrymen. But cheering and whooping it up? Do I know the exact details, no; but from what I can tell we shot and killed an unarmed man. Yes, he had the proverbial blood on his hands but I know that when I see celebratory herds of Arab Muslims parading around dead pilot or soldier's bodies, I'm disgusted. I would think that celebrating the killing of anyone is distasteful and smacks more of revenge than justice. My generation watched Oswald get gunned down on national TV and the response of many was shock, not celebration. Same for "ordinary" electrocution or lethal injection of those in our criminal justice system - it's a sad event, not cause for celebration except for a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 If only those fine people from Westboro were at Osama's funeral to protest it and chant their slogans of God hating him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 acco Look at it this way this is the first real victory from the mess in Afganistan and Iraq that has dragged on for a decade now. There was celebration in the US and Europe when Hitler was killed why should this be any different, it's all a matter of perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAKWIB Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I suspect that all the celebration gave those in the administration a warm and fuzzy feeling all over. They are finally feeling some love right now. I haven't seen too much of any military commander giving an explanation of the raid...just the White House spokesman who seems to alter his story every time he steps to the podium. Maybe I've missed the military reporting,so if anyone has a link I would appreciate it. The photos will get leaked sooner or later. If nothing else, Obama will let the conspiracy theorists rant and rave for a few months till it builds to a certain pitch and at the right time release the pictures so he can have a "here's the proof, you dummies" moment. (This message has been edited by WAKWIB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 The celebration in the US and Europe was not because Hitler was dead but because "Victory in Europe" was achieved. I don't see us declaring a victory on the war on terror and the return of active duty soldiers and marines to the United States in the near future due to this event. I'd compare it more to the killing of Mussolini maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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