US Presidents role models or buisnessmen?

[Scoutfish]

Talking with a contractor yesterday, and the subject of US presidents came up. Not any one particular president, but US presidents in general.

 

She asked me who I thought was a good president.

 

WEll, I vcannot say that I think any president is a great or good president as an entire package, but I did like two things that two different presidents did:

 

Regan: He came on tv one night and told us that we bombed Libya.

 

He did not tell the news reporters about what we were going to do 3 months ahead of time, nor did he type it on facebook!

 

 

Nope! He told us what he ALREADY did aafter he did it!

 

SURPRISE!

 

Clinton..whatever you think about the guy, he balanced the budget for a little while....before putting his John Handcock on NAFTA which pretty much killed everythinmg he did before that.

 

So then she says to me: "What about the whole Monica thing? Don't you think the presedent should be a good role model and show good morals?

 

And I told her this: My boss does not care I am single, twice divored, a brother husband, a polygamist, gay, tansgender, into voodoo, mimes, acid rock, nude body art, devil worship, or whatever..as long as when I am on the job - I am professional about my job.

 

As long as I do my job in a timely manner, do it well and respesent the company in a good light...he dose't care if I wear pink tights while wearing fuzzy bunny slipers and a diving snorkle while watching a Three Stooges Marathon.

 

And that's the way I see the president.

 

I want a guy who is a great buisnesman as far as our economy is concerned. I want a guy who knows what the hell he is doing and can get the job done.

 

As far as morals go...I do not ned a president or anybody else to watch. I handle mine my kids morals at home. If have to depend on a president or congrees man, teacher or any movie star for my morals..I am already lost.

 

 

And that's how I feel about the prsedent. Just like my boss feels about me: He hired me to get the job done. He did not hire me because of what I do at home, or with friends ( illegal drugs and such not withstanding!). He doesn't care what I watch as long as I do what I was hired to do when I am at work.

 

I do not care what or who the president does while at home or in the bedroom. I do care what and how he does when it comes to the budget, the country, etc...

 

 

So how about you?

[vol_scouter]

Unfortunately, our children look at the president as a role model. The incidence of cigar smoking and oral sex among teenagers was reported to have risen during the Clinton years. He was seen often smoking a cigar and according to him, having oral sex with Monica Lewinsky was not having sex. {Check that out with your spouse and I imagine that they will not see things that way.} The president sets a tone and represents all of us to the rest of the world. His personal standards do mean something. While that should not be the most important factor in the voting booth, it is nonetheless important.

 

Also, when people have affairs (especially men), they usually want to impress the partner in adultery. Monica revealed that Bill told her some things that were of a sensitive nature. That is a security concern. If the partner is working for a foreign government, they could get information that could harm the US. While I do not think that a president having an affair should in and of itself lead to impeachment and removal from office, it should not be taken lightly.

 

I do not know about the standards to which others are held, but in all of my professional jobs behavior that reflects poorly on the employer is a reason for termination. Usually that means that most legal behaviors are tolerated as long as are kept private. Once they become public, people lose their jobs. I remember a Supreme Court ruling in the 1970's which upheld the employer's right to fire employees whose behavior could reflect badly on the company.

 

Lastly, if my boss was very immoral and/or corrupt, I would leave. I have done that before and will do so again if faced with similar circumstances. As a physician you learn that your most important possession in a business sense is your reputation. Working for or with people of poor standards can destroy a reputation that takes a lifetime to build.

 

So, yes, the president's moral character is important. If he or she is corrupt then the whole administration will be corrupt. While have high values does not guarantee an honest executive branch, it will make it mores.

 

Just my two cents worth.

[OldGreyEagle]

I want a president to be Presidential, and while I can'f define it, I certainly know it when I see it. I don't understand the idol worship of Reagan and think Clinton was/is a buffoon. I don't want the ex-presidents to live in squalor nor do I want them to pimp out the office as surprisingly enough both Reagan and Clinton did gathering wealth based on the notoriety of their office. We wonder where morals are in the country, and then we don't care if the president is? I want my president to be Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent... is that too much to ask?

 

 

PS:Mussolini, whatever you think about the guy, he made the trains run on time(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

[sherminator505]

I can honestly say that I have not seen a President in my lifetime that I would call an excellent role model. I was born in 1970.

[packsaddle]

I liked Gerald Ford...but then I don't play golf. I was absolutely disgusted when that great Christian leader, Bob Jones of Bob Jones University, referred to Betty Ford as a slut in one of his public statements. I will never ever forget that.

I didn't agree with the pardon though, and I seriously doubt he was endowed with genius. But I guess Ford would be my pick. Perhaps not regal enough for those who like that kind of thing. But he was fair. So far no one has shown me one of his lies.

 

I also liked Ike. He played around, evidently, during the war or maybe after that as well, but I think he was very wise when he warned all of us about the risks of the growing military-industrialist complex. But then, he had already contributed greatly to it...oh well. Tough role model due to the need for military background.

Let's see,

Kennedy..oops, he also played around. No one seemed to mind back then, did they? Role model for the 'playboy' President. I did like the way he backed Kruschev down.

Nixon...what can I say, I blame myself, having voted for the guy twice. Role model for the Sopranos.

Ford already noted

Carter..thought he was honest too until vol-scouter outed him. Role model for past presidents.

Reagan...did pretty well for an Alzheimer's victim. Almost everything he did was therefore plausibly deniable and the lies merely came from his handlers. Role model for doddering but likable old people whose simple view of the world resonates with the majority.

Bush...wimp. Inadequate. Role model for polite Patrician elitists who think they are just sooooo smart but are merely average. Also lied about the reasons for Gulf One.

Clinton...all of a sudden we're concerned about indiscretion, ok. Role model for males willing to take advantage of subordinate females, combined with a belief that they can't get caught. Balanced the budget though, I was really hoping the country would see the wisdom in that. I was wrong. He lied too. But at least no one got killed as a result unlike...

Bush II...pants on fire. This is my vote for the worst President of all time. Reversed the fiscal responsibility of Clinton and mired us in debacle. Personification of arrogance without merit. Willing to casually turn his back on the principles of this nation. A role model for every coke addict whose parents have the connections, money, and friends to put him into office.

Obama...my main beef with him is that he has adopted many of the policies of his predecessor. He is a role model for minorities and I give him credit for that.

But then, once the car you're in is over the cliff edge, who cares what person is behind the wheel?

I'm really hoping that the next line will have the name of Trump on it. It IS what we all deserve.

[sherminator505]

Hey, now! I know I'm not perfect, but I'd like to think I deserve a better end than the armageddon we'd see at the hands of "President Trump!"

[Eamonn]

The job of US President isn't easy.

My hope is that whoever is elected can surround him or herself with very clever, bright and intelligent people who are able to advise and at time push what is needed.

More than anything Presidents and Prime Ministers need to be seen as leaders.

This past week the President talked about the Birther issue, saying that it had became a distraction.

While maybe at times distractions can be good. I'm thinking about how the Royal Wedding that they just had across the pond, was maybe a good thing and gave the people there an opportunity to if only for a little while too focus on something that really wasn't or isn't that important, away from the bad news and economic news of the day.

When the distraction is about how the leader has used poor judgment and has maybe abused the office that he has been elected to hold, it gets in the way and prevents him from being able to inspire and lead.

While maybe years ago there might have been some things that might not have received the media coverage that we see today, Presidents having a mistress or just behaving badly? Today with 24 hour news coverage, every little thing is under the microscope and is reported with the risk of being blown up till it becomes part of the national debate.

Most of us never really get to know the President, but we expect him to do what is good and what is right.

This becomes hard when it becomes clear that he isn't doing what is good and what is right.

Just as I expect a SM to set the example for the Scouts more than just being able to do the practical stuff.

I expect our leaders to be people that even though we might disagree with, still be people that we can look up to.

Eamonn

 

[acco40]

Just like the CEO of a large corporation should inspire his employees, so should the President isnpire the citizens of the United States.

 

Now, Carter got crucified because of stagflation and his talk of "sacrifice" (put on a sweater and turn down the thermostat to save resources). Reagan talked of a shining city on a hill. I'm a pragmatist and very analytical (not emotional) so a Carter type leadership was more palatable than Reagan leadership for me but the exact opposite for others.

 

During the Clinton years, the economy was relatively fantastic. All of us are flawed and while his sexual actions didn't bother me too much, his reaction to those actions did. He was not straight forward. I would have respected a "I don't answer questions about my private affairs" response instead of his "is" or "I did not have sex with that woman English language gymnastics.

[SR540Beaver]

WE lead by example.....whether we intend to or not. Wh is WE? WE is everybody.

 

What we say and what we do makes a difference. While I understand scoutfish's point, the character of a person does count and does mean something. If a guy decides to live in an apartment or a house, I don't care. If he decides to drive a Chevy or a Ford, I don't care. If he decides to wear a ball cap or a cowboy hat, I don't care. If he decides to cuss like a sailor, drink to drunkeness, smoke like a chimney, have sex with anyone willing......I do care. I don't want my kids around him. I don't want him working for me. He will bring those same qualities on the job with him.

 

Character is what we do when no one is looking. Character counts. WE lead by example. Just my two cents.

[Oak Tree]

By and large the presidents have relatively little effect on the economy, but they get all kinds of blame or credit. They do have some impact at the very highest levels, deciding to push for large tax cuts or a balanced budget, but they were not responsible for the Great Depression in the thirties, or the boom in the fifties. Nor for stagflation in the seventies. So except at the very highest level of direction setting, I don't really care what kind of an economist the President is. The President will do things to make it look like he's doing something, but the economy is unbelievably large and it takes a mighty large push to get it to do anything.

 

As far as a role model goes, I'd say that while character is what you do while no one's looking, looking Presidential and being a good role model is what you do that everyone sees. I do prefer that my President looks and acts Presidential. Per Scoutfish's original question, this is where the President would "represent the company in a good light", and this is a basic requirement of the job.

 

I think this is where some of Carter's failings can be attributed - he generally made us feel worse. No Olympics, no Christmas tree, talk of "malaise", hostages, failed rescue attempt - as a kid I never understood how robbing athletes of their dream was the appropriate response to Russia invading Afghanistan. He just seemed like he was clinically depressed or something.

 

Reagan did feel like "morning in America" - it was ok to be proud of your country again. His writings, released later, are actually quite good and represent a pretty coherent philosophy.

 

I do like Ford, for the reasons stated above, and I believe the pardon was the right thing to do.

 

I'm also a great Eisenhower fan - reading back over some of his life leaves me very much impressed with the man. Teddy Roosevelt, too, all but for that Bull Moose thing.

 

I think a President's greatest impact is on matters that aren't always high in visibility - the judges that get appointed leave a lasting legacy, many smaller decisions tend to be made in ways that will satisfy the party faithful, whereas on many big decisions the President will tack toward the middle. Hence Clinton reformed Welfare. Bush 41 approved new taxes. Obama says he's opposed to gay marriage. Etc.

 

So what would I ask from a President?

1. look and act Presidential while representing the country (I think that Ford, Carter, and Bush 43 had challenges here, otherwise I think we did OK from FDR forward)

2. don't screw up in a major way (LBJ screwed up Vietnam, Nixon blew it with Watergate, Clinton had the whole Monica thing)

3. push for policies I agree with - generally, support freedom, don't explode the economy, encourage people to take responsibility for their own lives

4. don't be inept at other Presidential responsibilities (surround yourself with smart people)

 

 

[Oak Tree]

Reading back over my post, I guess I could summarize it this way. Role model or businessman? Neither describes what I'm looking for.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with Oak Tree.

 

A president has very little influence on the economy. And when he does try to jigger the economy for a shorter-term bump in the polls, it almost always makes things worse. I never have understood da claims that presidents "create jobs" or whatnot. The private sector creates jobs and economic growth. The job of the government executive is to enforce the laws with respect to transparency, fair dealing, and fraud, so that da natural greed of the private sector is prevented from doin' too much harm, or is punished with appropriate severity.

 

People claiming presidents should "do something" about the economy are foolish. Presidents thinking they can "do something" about the economy are deluded. All they can do is their job, eh? Provide government services like law enforcement, and do it efficiently without borrowing money.

 

Nor do I really think I would ever consider a modern politician to be a role model for children. No more than modern actors. That's just begging someone to put on an act for you. Real role models are the everyday, ordinary people who work hard at their jobs to provide a service or product to meet the needs of others. Introduce your kid to the hard-working and honest garbage collector, not to the politician. Invite the most well-respected plumber in your area to the ECOH as a role model, not the governor.

 

Beavah

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

True, Presidents and Congress don't create jobs. They do however thru their cabinet policies and legislation affect the environment where jobs are created.

[eisely]

Presidents do get too much blame and too much credit regarding the economy. There is little that the federal government can do to affect the economy in the near term, but policy actions can have major long term consequences.

 

I would prefer that elected leaders set good examples across the board, but people are fallible. Often the most effective leaders have some of the most glaring character flaws.

 

During the Civil War, Grant's enemies in the Federal military hierarchy (not the confederacy) started whispering campaigns about alleged drinking. Lincoln's response was, "Find out what he's drinking and give it to the rest of my generals."

 

 

[skeptic]

Beavah;

 

Can you send me "Joe's" address please?