Gay marriage backing

[grmaerika]

Yes, I know my point of view is regarded as ,"far right", "religious fanatic", yes, I'm Catholic. Be that as it may I still predict that allowing gay leadership and the acceptance of gay marriage will cause a big rift.All the Catholics will drop out for one, and say goodbye to using the Catholic school for PWD. You might as well forget any Muslims being involved too.Everyone can have their own personal viewpoints on this, i've shared mine.I'm sure many of the people in our Pack share the support of gay marriage stance. I defenitely do not share my viewpoint on this within our meetings, because as the rules are now, i'm happy to be involved with the BSA.But, if it changed, alot of people would drop out and alot of different people would come in and it will be a very different organization.Perhaps us strangely religious people will have to have the creativity and drive to create our own organization. Is that more fair?

[Scoutfish]

I'm not saying that I think BSA shoudl have to accept gays, just saying that members of BSA shoukld not have to denounce them.

 

Two different things entirely.

 

BSA is a private club that has the right to make it's own rules. I'm cool with that.

 

I just saying that being a scouter should not mandate what my stance is supposed to be.

 

I know vegatarians that do not agree with PETA because of their ...well...excentric actions they partake in sometimes.

 

Likewise, my being in scouting is not associated with wether i am against or for gay marrage.

 

 

Allowing gay leadership is not the same as saying that all members must be against it.

 

MMatter of fact, while gay leadership is under BSA's control (orgazational policy) , gay marrage is beyond BSA's control ( federal and state regulations).

 

Kinda like: I do not agree with polygamy or threesomes or foursome. But I am not going to condemn them any more than I condem people who eat onions on their burgers because I cannot stand onions.

 

It's a personal viewpoint. I respect everybody's raighht to have their own views and beliefs. I do not force mine on them, and do not allow them to force theirs on me. And like the pro onions people versus anti onion people...wew can all get along fine if we just choose to.

 

 

 

But yeah, I totally agree with you completely that BSA would have some big rifts in it if gays were suddenly allowed in. Wether somebody was for it or against it doesn't have anything to do with the fact it would happen.

[Eagledad]

There is some misinformation and confusion here. The Judeao-Christian movement that was the basis for setting the moral standards of western civilization defined marriage as the covenant union of a man and woman. It's not about law, it's about a committed relationship that is the source of a healthy moral family. Key words there are healthy family.

 

Marriage laws were created by the government mainly to protect children, not to make money. Back in the day it was to prevent family members from making families with family members and so on. I really don't think they thought that Billy would want to play mommy and Bob play the daddy. We have advanced? LOL

 

Gay activist don't care about marriage, it's of no advantage to the cause, they are pushing to repel the laws to sway future generations into using mans morality to make moral decisions instead of Gods morality. But it is a big step toward defining text in the bible as hate speech. One that's done, freedom of religion in The United States is gone. It's already happening in Canada.

 

Oh by the way, I learned this from an gay activist way back before the Supreme Court decision with the Boy Scouts. Going after the BSA was part of their attack against religious doctrine. The decision was a big setback for them, but hitting the marriage act was already in action anyways. I remember the activist saying they could really care less about Scouts or religions, it's all about the gay movement and anything that professed homosexuality as anything less than moral was a target.

 

Oh, I read where Europe views attacking the marriage laws as stupid and purely political because just like in the US, gays have equal rights to non gays.

 

Barry

[packsaddle]

Sheesh, how many times do I have to write this....there ARE gay scout leaders. There always have been. There always will be. Those of us who want to exclude gays simply don't know about this or who they are. As long as the 'policy' is in place, you probably never WILL know who they are. So keep a sharp lookout and turn up the gaydar to maximum sensitivity. That leader from the other troop at summer camp....might be gay. The next adult applicant to your unit...might be gay. One of the previous leaders in your unit....might be gay. Your priest, the Pope, the top brass in Irving, TX, Obama, George Bush, pick any politician....all might be gay. I....and Scoutfish (he doth protest too loudly sometimes???)...might be gay. And you will never, ever, be sure about any of us. But we are here, all of us. And always will be. And you will never ever know....

[Eagledad]

>>Sheesh, how many times do I have to write this....there ARE gay scout leaders. There always have been.

[packsaddle]

Oops, I miswrote. I SHOULD have written, "...there ARE gay scout 'role models'. There always have been."

 

As for me, all of my skeletons are...well, skeletons actually. Mostly skulls..part of my daughter's skull collection..wanna contribute?

I was writing about the irrational fears that people have with regard to imagined things: monsters, evil spirits, gay leaders... Except that gay leaders (oops, sorry, 'role models') are real - and some of us seem only able to live with this fact by imagining that gay scout role models are NOT there. Kind of like reverse imagination: instead of imagining things that we're afraid of, we're NOT afraid because we imagine that gay scout 'role models' are NOT there.

But as for gay marriage, that's here too. It's growing. It's not going away. And in time, those opposed to it will become a smaller and smaller minority.

 

The point about the Episcopal Church is that they knew the risk of a split and they DID it anyway. And they did split. Moreover, neither faction has perished in flames as a result. But if 'the policy' DID change for BSA, there would be no split. Any members who choose to leave scouting will merely leave scouting same as if they had suddenly decided to go to another planet or something. Same as any person leaving scouting does already. Scouting would still be there and BSA would continue to have a lock on the trademark, etc. Scouting will continue. But if anyone chooses to leave, it will be their personal choice...not a result of being forced out by the organization.

[grmaerika]

Yes, alot of people would leave because it would be against their religion to support an organization that supported gay marriage and had openly gay---like you knew they were gay when they signed up--leaders.Because alot of people still view homosexuality as a grave sin.But since we have not got to that point in our history yet, for now we all have various views on the subject, because we have people from many different religions and denominations.It defenitely has not come up in our den meetings and Pack meetings. We were just told by the CM that we had to believe in a "higher power", that's about as PC as you can get on that subject.Just for fun, how would the gay marriage supporters feel in regard to allowing in "trans-gender" people? You know that's coming in right along with the openly gay people don't you?I'm just laughing to myself right now, because in my mind the BSA will need a TOTAL makeover. The possiblities are endless!

[Scoutfish]

Yes, I know my point of view is regarded as ,"far right", "religious fanatic",

 

Nah, I wouldn't call you a fanatic. When you start bombing and killing those who do not agree with your beliefs...then you'd be a fanatic.

[Eagledad]

>>Healthy is not limited to nor does it define heterosexual. Look at all the child abuse, spouse abuse, cheating, fornicating and lustfull heterosexual men and women. Look at the preists who had their jollies with the young men. All were Hetero no?

[packsaddle]

grmaerika,

I don't see what the problem would be with regard to transgender. By the way, THAT's already here too - transgender marriages at least.

But it's a good question for those who are opposed to gay marriage, or gay membership. I've posed it before, using a personal example. So let's say that I suddenly want to REALLY get in touch with my 'feminine side'. I do the whole Monte. And I'd be stunning, too! Now if, say, Eagledad (sorry, I feel like picking on you for this...no special reason) suddenly found himself single and attracted to me. Would he be gay? Should we be allowed to marry? Or do we just 'live in sin'?

Does the BSA exclude Eagledad? Remember, we're talking role models here.

Alternatively, although I'm physically female, I'm attracted to other females. Am I gay? Or not? Am I to be viewed by BSA as a female leader? Or excluded as a bad role model? Why? Why not? Be clear about the answers.

Or does BSA now institute karyotyping as part of the application process, you know, just to be sure? What about chimeras? Persons who have genetic defects? BSA already allows these as members.

 

I agree that these new technologies and possibilities present ethical challenges to those who have difficulty making ethical decisions for themselves.

[Eagledad]

>>And I'd be stunning, too! Now if, say, Eagledad (sorry, I feel like picking on you for this...no special reason) suddenly found himself single and attracted to me. Would he be gay? Should we be allowed to marry? Or do we just 'live in sin'?

[grmaerika]

Ugh.... I just hope scouting never gets that complicated. The age old question, who's gonna use which bathroom? Sorry, my world is a simple place. I meet the transgender people in the hall of our highrise building here and just view them as "other" neither male nor female.I exchange pleasantries with them etc...but to me it all begins to look like Star Trek the Next Generation. Yes, I know my honesty makes me vulnerable to vicious verbal assaults.But in all seriousness, I think the future will kind of look like Star Trek. Thankfully, I will be dead before I ever have to work or live with the likes of DATA or other sundry cyborgs.But Scouting will probably still be around, morphed into something new.

[packsaddle]

grmaerika, you are probably in the majority in that opinion. And sadly, I will probably not live long enough to see many of those exciting possibilities come to pass, I just hope I get to see as many as possible. I do know this: nothing remains the same. There is change always and it comes very quickly. And the things we are discussing here are tiny things compared with what is inevitable.

[OldGreyEagle]

As I remember the politics of Star Trek, they didnt try to legislate whom anybody loved, they truly beleived in respecting the individual

[Scoutfish]

Well,you want to hear the kicker?

 

Next month, I - a married heterosexual male with a son - am going to dress up like a ballerina because I bet the boys in my pack that a certain % of them wouldn't make rank AND stick out the year.

 

Not only have we not lost a single scout, but had 4 transfer to our pack.

 

So now I am gonne be wearing my scout boots, pink tights, a tutu, short sleeve leader shirt over long sleeve pink top and a scout hat.

 

And somebody is worried about a gay leader's influence? LOL!

 

 

Yeah, I'm only doing it once and only to get the boys to laugh their butts off.