Gay marriage backing

[Oak Tree]

Just saw this article: "A majority now backs gay marriage."

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/slim-majority-back-gay-marriage-post-abc-poll-says/2011/03/17/ABhMc7o_story.html?hpid=z3

 

Five states and D.C. now allow gay marriage.

 

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-02/politics/dc.same.sex.marriage_1_same-sex-chief-justice-john-roberts-high-profile-issue?_s=PM:POLITICS

 

77% of Americans were in favor of the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" which passed in December.

 

The BSA is becoming increasing out-of-step with public opinion. Is there any other organization, except for religious groups, that explicitly doesn't allow gay adults to be members?

 

Something's going to have to give. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[packsaddle]

As I understand it, BSA claims to BE a religious organization.

[acco40]

Packsaddle, I think more correctly, the BSA claims to be a private organization and as such can make membership criteria such as religious beliefs and sexual identity criteria for membership.

 

Also in the news, the Obama administration, or more correctly, President Obama himself, has determined that the Defense of Marriage Act the 1996 law that bars federal recognition of same-sex marriages is unconstitutional, and has directed the Justice Department to stop defending the law in court, the administration said Wednesday.

[SR540Beaver]

Those pesky polls. It all depends on how questions are asked.

[grmaerika]

Yes, they can poll anyone they want to to get the desired result.A poll by the RCC might get a different result. I for one do not care if the BSA is considered "out of step" I hope it stays that way. People who want to support gay marriage can create their own organization. They certainly have a fine model to follow and they can have any rules that they want or don't want for that matter.

[packsaddle]

Acco, I refer to the discussion in this old thread:

http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=180153&p=1

Here's the quote from the Kansas case in 1998, from the BSA attorney: "Although Boy Scouts of America is not a religious sect, it is religious, and, while the local council is not a house of worship like a church or a synagogue, it is a religious organization."

[BrentAllen]

Oak,

Did you conveniently forget about what happened in Maryland earlier this month?

 

Maryland gay marriage bill dies with no final vote

 

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/031211/nat_798287281.shtml

 

 

[Trevorum]

It's only a matter of time before we finally grant equal rights for all citizens.

[vol_scouter]

Trevorum,

 

Citizens have equal rights. Males can marry females and vice versa. That applies to everyone. What is being asked is for new rights.

 

 

[Oak Tree]

My thanks to the moderator for moving this to Issues and Politics - I thought I was going to be asked which forum but apparently I'd already selected it somehow. I'm also not sure what the deal is with the links I tried to post - the forum software is doing some funny things automatically.

 

At any rate, this poll has been asked with the same wording over a number of years and this is the first time it came out with a majority. Yes, I realize the percentages change depending on the exact wording.

 

And yes, there are going to be many instances of states choosing not to allow gay marriage before they eventually allow it, but I predict that one by one more and more are going to allow it. Eventually the Supreme Court will rule that the equal protection clause now protects your right to marry someone (that is, the law can't give one gender the right to marry a man without giving the other gender the same right.) Yes, it's just my prediction, but I think the trend is so clear, it's almost like a scientific prediction (psychohistory, anyone?)

 

The BSA does define itself as a religious organization for these purposes, and in fact, the BSA's religious beliefs appear to be:

1. There is a God.

2. You have a duty to God.

3. You should be reverent towards God.

4. You should be faithful in your religious duties.

5. You should respect the beliefs of others.

6. Homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the requirement in the Scout Oath that a Scout be morally straight and in the Scout Law that a Scout be clean in word and deed, and that homosexuals do not provide a desirable role model for Scouts.

 

This is decided case law at the moment and likely to remain that way for some time. I do not think the courts are likely to force the BSA to accept gay leaders. Sometimes it just seems like a strange religious organization that I've joined here.

[WAKWIB]

Sometimes it just seems like a strange religious organization that I've joined here.

 

It has only been regarded as "strange" for the last 20 years or so, and only mainly by those outside of the organization.

Views #1-#6 you outline above were quite normative for any and all (within and without the organization)for nearly the entire history of BSA.

 

The "desireable role model" thing is, of course, a bit debateable as throughout BSA history there have been, no doubt, closet homosexuals that were outstanding leaders.

 

[grmaerika]

If the prediction about gay marrige sweeping across the land is correct, then I predict a split in the BSA similar to the Episcopal church and others who are going through this rift.I suppose it will mean the majority opinion will retain the right to call themselves BSA. Of course with the redefining of gender I don't think that majority will be able to call themselves BSA for long. "Boy" is too gender specific. I pray the BSA keeps it's current policy on homosexuals and that people who really support gay marriage and everything that goes along with it will have the creativity and drive to start their own organization.Some people still believe in the birds and the bees,animal going into heat,the process of procreation observed in nature. Some people cherish their world as God created it and that it is a self sustaining entity without human kind even being a part of it.People who are "strangely religious" understand this very basic point of existence, and hold that marriage is a part of that natural order. Male and female equals more of whatever animal species we are talking about.I thought the BSA was big into nature. That's why I joined.

[packsaddle]

In 'nature' life is brutal and short. Have a nice day.

You might also want to re-examine your concept of so-called 'natural' sexual activity. If the monkeys haven't done it, it can't be done. This would also apply to some other animals but the absence of hands limits their options. Moreover, for the vast majority of the history of this planet, humans simply didn't exist.

 

Oak Tree, I'm not sure what the problem is with your links either. But I think you got the point across. As for 'strangeness', that's a matter of perspective. If what you mean is that there seem to be some logical inconsistencies or perhaps ironies in the way membership policy is worded or applied, I agree. But as Trevorum has noted in the past, things ARE changing and eventually there is a chance that this organization will become less prejudiced and more welcoming in its membership policy.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

So does that mean I have to be committed against it, or just not for it?

 

I believe in gay peoples rights to get married based on the fact they are human. Not due to one country's citizens imposing only certain religious "rights" on the Federal laws.

 

Now, I said I feel they have the right. THis does not mean I am going to push it, nor do I deny it. I just believe they have the right to be married to the person they love..if they choose so.

 

Persoanlly, it doesn't affect me either way! If two gays move in next door to the right of me, are they any more immoral than the neighbors on the left who are single and have wild drunken raving heterosexual sex parties?

 

Are they any worse than the heterosexual neighbor caddy-corner and one block over who is cheating on his wife without even trying to hide it?

 

Or the couple who love each other to death, have been totally faithful to each other, lived together for 9 years without getting married? ( I supose it's common law marrage now)

 

Marrage is an understanding between two people. It is deciding that you want to be with that person for the rest of your life, and no one else.

 

The act of getting married is only a ceremony to show how you feel and that you committed to each other. The ceremony does not make you respect each other , nor does it make you stay faithful. That's all in the heart.

 

The marrage license is just a piece of paper so goverments can get some $$$ from it.

 

 

So the thing to me is this: Who cares if they get mmarried? I am not gay. It doesn't take away from my marrage, it does not affect my marrage , not can I blame any gay people for any issues that arise in my marrage to my beautiful and loving wife of (almost) 15 years.

 

And if anybody says gays being married ruined their heterosexual marrage..they are just looking for scapegoats!

 

 

So I guess it doesn't suprise me that more people are supporting it, as they realize it doesn't hurt, demean, or change the status or dynamics of their own marrages.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[packsaddle]

Yeah, why shouldn't gays have the right to be as miserable as anyone else???!!!