Union Busting or Sound Financial Management?

[Beavah]

Wait a minute, you just got through saying management controls hiring, firing and salaries. Now management has crossed the line? Let's be clear here, they can still negotiate just like folks who don't have a union job or dont have collective bargaining rights, they just can't strike and expect to keep their job if they don't like the offer, "just like most normal folks trying to make ends meet".

 

Yah, sorry for my lack of clarity, Eagledad. Da action is nearby, so I'm followin' it closer than most of yeh might be.

 

The governor is tryin' to maintain da fixed salary structure, and prohibit bargaining on benefits and working conditions. Last time I checked if you were an ordinary private citizen yeh could, at your option (1) choose to form and join a union, and (2) choose to negotiate with your employer on salary and benefits and working conditions. So what's crossing the line in terms of ethical behavior is trying to give public employees fewer rights than private employees. Whether you're a private or a public employer, yeh have a moral obligation to treat fairly and justly with your workers. That's a part of the Oath and Law. This isn't doin' that.

 

Da second bit is that a provision of the package also prevents local municipalities and school districts from doing anything different, eh? Remember, it's da local entities that employ most teachers and other public workers, not the state directly. So they're taking away local control of such things as taxes and terms of negotiation. That's what's not conservative, it's a very liberal-style move. Centralize everything to the state because the state knows best, not the local people who know their kids and their community and its needs.

 

So yeh have a fellow who is usin' a fiscal shortfall to behave like a big-government liberal and to be less than ethical in da treatment of his employees. Even though I agree with some of the fellow's policy positions, his actions and behavior are nuthin' to celebrate.

 

Beavah

 

[SMT224]

 

Everything below is a recent (3/4/11) post at the Forbes Magazine website. Link to the original article is at the very end.

 

 

Gov. Scott Walker Has Lost The War

 

Rick Ungar

THE POLICY PAGE

 

Mar. 4 2011 - 2:46 pm

 

In what may be the result of one of the great political miscalculations of our time, Scott Walkers popularity in his home state is fast going down the tubes.

 

A Rasmussen poll out today reveals that almost 60% of likely Wisconsin voters now disapprove of their aggressive governors performance, with 48% strongly disapproving.

 

While these numbers are clearly indicators of a strategy gone horribly wrong, there are some additional findings in the poll that I suspect deserve even greater attention.

 

It turns out that the states public school teachers are very popular with their fellow Badgers. With 77% of those polled holding a high opinion of their educators, it is not particularly surprising that only 32% among households with children in the public school system approve of the governors performance. Sixty-seven percent (67%) disapprove, including 54% who strongly disapprove.

 

Can anyone imagine a politician succeeding with numbers like this among people who have kids?

 

These numbers should be of great concern not only to Governor Walker but to governors everywhere who were planning to follow down the path of war with state employee unions. You cant take on the state worker unions without taking on the teachers and the teachers are more popular than Gov. Walker and his cohorts appear to realize.

 

The data should also weigh heavily on the minds of each and every Republican gearing up to run for president in 2012 as the actions of Governor Walker, Kasich and anyone else planning to enter this fight are bringing Christmas to the Obama re-election campaign as they return rank and file union members to where they once lived - the Democratic Party.

 

The defection of union members to the Republican Party has been an important part of the electoral math for successful GOP candidates for many years now and a real thorn in the side for the democrats.

 

Consider the re-election campaign of President George W. Bush where success came down to winning the vote in Northeastern Ohio.

 

Im from Northeastern Ohio. I can tell you without hesitation that union flows through the blood of these people who spent so much of their lives in the steel mills (before they closed up) and are reminded each and every day of how well their union looked out for them. While a number of these people are retired and living on their pensions provided by their collective bargaining agreement, their kids many of whom do not hold union jobs- remain very appreciative of what the unions did for mom and dad.

 

While this appreciation may not have prevented these people from siding politically with the social philosophy of George W. Bush as they did- had Bush taken on the unions in his re-election bid, the outcome would likely have been very different.

 

These strong, emotional attachments to the unions persist in many of the rust belt states where so many key presidential battlegrounds can be found.

 

While Governor Walker may yet succeed in getting his budget repair bill through the legislative process and accomplish his goal of reducing collective bargaining to a shell of its former self, the larger battle appears to already be lost. And while Walker still in the earliest stages of his term-may be able to recover over the next three and a half years, from a national perspective, I dont know that Walkers future makes any difference at all.

 

The damage has already been done.

 

Should Gov. Walker accomplish his goal, he will have stoked a level of union anger that I very much suspect will become a key driver in an Obama victory in 2012. He will also have prompted the nations unions to work together for a common objective a feat that would have seemed impossible just one month ago.

 

If Walker loses his fight, he will have reminded the unions of the importance of fighting back against their enemies, reminding them of how life was for their forbearers who fought to establish the modern union movement. This will ignite the passion for battle while reminding those union folks who have been voting republican of the importance of sticking with the party that sticks with them.

 

Walker would have done well to take yes for an answer when the unions agreed to his financial proposals. Given the procedural advantages in Ohio, where the GOP legislators could push through the anti-collective bargaining bill without the need for Democratic legislators, Walker should have backed down and allowed John Kasich to take the lead in the effort.

 

The Wisconsin governors desire to be at the forefront of his perceived GOP revolution may not only have doomed the anti-union effort, but it may forever label him as the man who gave the democrats the gift that keeps on giving the return of the union rank and file into the arms of the Democratic Party.

 

 

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/03/04/gov-scott-walker-has-lost-the-war/

 

[Mr. Boyce]

"Collective bargaining" is the equivalent of top drawer CEO's pointing to "what the other guys got" when they demand a huge salary.

 

Studies consistently show minimal relationship between performance and pay at the top levels; we know this much.

 

In both cases, it's a demand. If collective bargaining goes, I say we toss out the argument that "hey, the other bank presidents make this much, so I should, too."

[vol_scouter]

Beavah,

 

A non-union employee may in theory have the right to bargain for pay, benefits, vacation, et cetera but in reality it just doesn't work that way. I have worked for several employers from ~20 to ~5,000 employees. In all cases, the benefits, vacation time, etc. were a take or forget the job proposition. Salary could be negotiated but nothing else could. I live in a right to work state which I suppose could change that equation but I rather doubt it. So it seems to me that this only levels tha playing field to that others actually have.

[packsaddle]

Walker and his imitators act from ideology, not from political strategy. They should stay the course, to use a phrase from another conservative. Stick to their guns regardless of the political consequences. That honest approach will self-correct quickly if it is as wrong as the polls suggest.

[Lisabob]

Mr. Boyce writes: "Collective bargaining" is the equivalent of top drawer CEO's pointing to "what the other guys got" when they demand a huge salary.

 

 

PHWPHWA! (that's the sound of my coffee hitting the screen)

 

Thanks for the good laugh, Mr. Boyce. When I return to the table to negotiate our next contract, I will remember that. In the case of my union, we are looking for a 2% raise for roughly 600 members, the total cost of which (for 600 people!) would be less than the cost of the ordinary salaries of just 2 of the administrative guys sitting across the table from us.

 

But yeah, sure, we're all just greedy unionists looking to fleece the taxpayers once again, aren't we. Go right ahead and keep on believing that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Lisabob, I think yeh misread Mr. Boyce, eh?

 

I think what he's sayin' is that if collective bargaining goes, then so should the argument your college president makes that "based on salaries of college presidents at peer institutions, my salary should go up 20%" (and then become part of da magical "salaries at peer institutions" for a neighboring college president). Essentially, that's an odd form of collective bargaining.

 

That's what's been drivin' the almost insane salary inflation of business CEOs for years, and of college presidents and folks like BSA Chief Scout Executives.

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

The consistently highest salaries at this and all our sister institutions are....coaches. No academic value whatsoever but people seem to be just fine with that.

[SMT224]

 

Senator Bernie Sanders, Independent from Vermont speaks to these issues...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcLWDGb0RqA

 

 

[nolesrule]

"The consistently highest salaries at this and all our sister institutions are....coaches. No academic value whatsoever but people seem to be just fine with that. "

 

Can't say the same for other schools, but at my university the athletic department budget is essentially independent of the rest of the university, and is supported entirely by incoming sponsorships, ad and event revenues and booster club donations. It is not supported by state dollars.

 

But yes, coaches, especially the high-profile ones, are usually the highest paid employees at colleges.

 

As for no academic value, I would argue that successful athletic programs can breed increased alumni loyalty (an emotional response), which can lead to increased donations to academic programs (in addition to the athletic donations). It may be somewhat indirect, but it does have an impact.

[OldGreyEagle]

I think it was Bo Schembechler, or Woody Hayes, or some like era coach who was asked about the obscene amount of money College Football Coaches were making. The reponse was something like

 

if they had a Physics Professor who could fill a stadium with 100,000 people 6 times a year who paid to listen to a 3 hour lecture, they would pay him pretty good as well

 

Cant seem to find it right now

[Mr. Boyce]

No, I've read a few biographies of Justice Louis Brandeis and a few histories of the progressive era, and I support the collective bargaining right.

 

I'm generally pro-Union, though not a member of a union. Unions on occasion do make themselves criticizable.

 

In SO many instances, we see business agreeing to a contract with labor. . . and then, further down the road, make a big squawk about it.

 

What's to squawk about? You made a contract. Stick to it. That's Business 101.

[Lisabob]

Well I do seem to have mis-read you. My apologies for that.

[packsaddle]

I was unaware that I had made anything other than a simple observation. I don't think it was an attack on coaches, just an observation which, by the way, no one denied.

But I was in error. Judging from the responses to my observation, I SHOULD have written that people weren't merely ok with coach salaries, they will also jump to defend the coaches. Contrast that with the way people seem to be willing to diminish teachers.

[83Eagle]

@Calico: This trope that "the Republicans ran on this" is a spurious claim of certain conservative media personalities that doesn't hold up under examination.

 

Hardly.

 

During the campaign, Walker campaign spokesperson said about revamping health insurance: "The way the proposal would work is we would take the choice out of the collective bargaining process."

 

Walker said, "you've got to free up local government officials to not be strangled by things like mediation and arbitration."

 

Walker said, "With so many private-sector workers seeing their wages and benefits frozen or cut, it's hard not to expect the same from those in government."

 

Walker said, about public sector union employees, "They have a mindset of entitlement and take it for granted they will get all these beneifts rather than saying, 'I should play a role in helping to cut costs.'"

 

Walker said, "Other than core public safety components...all other government functions should be assessed for possible privitaization."

 

I'll tell you one thing, the public sector unions were certainly aware of Walker's intentions as Governor:

 

The American Federation of Teachers was so certain of Walker's intentions that they sent a flyer to teachers urging them to vote against Walker because he wanted to void parts of labor contracts," based on an on-the-record statement Walker made to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel during the campaign.

 

Before the election, WEAC was fully prepared to protest any action Walker took. Said Christina Brey, a spokesman for the Wisconsin Education Association Council: Our members oppose taking away their rights to collective bargaining, so they would definitely raise their voices against it." Apparently they were pretty sure of what Walker intended to do.

 

And yet, he was still elected!

 

Again, all these actions are no surprise to anyone who was actually paying attention both during the campaign and during Walker's tenure as a Milwaukee County Exec.