Picture of What is Wrong With This Country

[scoutingagain]

Yes there are the moochers out there. But with an unemployment rate of nearly 10% there are millions of productive individuals out there that would jump at the chance to do productive work if it were available. I've seen good families who have done the right things pull their kids from college because they have lost their job through no fault of their own. Others are wondering day to day, week to week if they will be able to stay in the house they've lived in for the last 10 years. Are they starving in the streets? No, but these families are hurting. Sure had they been able to see into the future they may have done things differently financially, but how many of us saw this coming.

 

My son, recently graduated with honors in engineering. He applied to over 100 positions, heard back from a handful. Interviewed at a few less. Finally landed a job and he is one of a handfull of his classmates that have found work. Most have stayed in school because there just are not enough jobs available. And this is a field supposedly in demand in a part of the country where the unemployment rate in less than the national average. Only a couple of years ago they would have graduated with several offers in hand. He is grateful for the work.

 

If you are working this season, be grateful for the priviledge. Help those in need. Worry less about how others live their lives and provide assistance to those who need it. I suggest people look harder for those who need charity and don't go seeking the moochers to justify self rightousness or judge others.

 

This is not directed at anyone in particular and I appoligize if anyone takes offense. It is not inteneded. This hits home. I know close friends and relatives who have worked all their lives, done the right things, and find themselves this year on unemployment, taking fuel assistance and food stamps. Things they never would have believed they would have done only two years ago. If anyone is having difficulty finding people to help this season they are not looking very hard.

 

SA

 

[Scoutfish]

 

 

My point exactly! Some people who were hard workers ...maybe even those who worked 50 hour weeks and EARNED those big scren tv's , new cars and trucks and whatnot...suddenly found themselves unemployeed.

 

People who were used to doing the 9 to5 and paying all their bills( even the frivilous oones) suddenly found themselves in the unemployment line.

 

And the few jobs available are hiring the young ( read cheaper pay) over the old.

 

Again, I know abuse happens . I even reported one of my friends who not only abused the system , but flaunted that abuse.

 

 

But it's exactly like the handicapped parking thing: A car parks in the handicapped area sand a guy gets out and walks into the store. Loks just fine to your eyes so he must be cheating the system right?

 

WRONG! My dad had a heart condition and a bum knee. He could walk 50 feet just fine, but more than that and he'd start limping real bad and ned to rest his knee and heart.

 

So ne might have been the guy who "appeared " to be just fine, but as soon as he was in thre store and out of your eyesight, you didn't see him stop, lean against the wall and his face grimmace in pain. He'd wait there for about 10 minutes until he could walk more.

 

Incidentally, he died from heart failure on a fishing peir two hours after somebody made a comment to him about abusing the system, because they saw him pull a wagon onto the pier with a 1 lbs cooler and 2- 1 pound fishing poles. They made the comment that if he could fish, he wasn't handicaped.

 

He died a few hours later from a heart and knee condition that he got courtesy of 22years abd 3 months serving in the US Coast Guard. He never complained that anybody owed him anything, didn't feel the govt owed him anything and only got the handicapped tag because my mom nagged him about it.

 

Nah, not bitter about it. Just saying, looks can be decieving to alot of us!

 

That wide screen TV may not be used because the family is cutting back on electricity. Maybe that brand new car is about to be repossesed.

 

I have an aunt and uncle who are pretty well to do. They donate stuff like tv and vcrs to people in need. Strange inded, but the thought counts right?

 

Could be that the Tv you see was given by people like my aunt and uncle instead of somethimng the family really needed.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

No offense taken, we are adults discussing an issue

 

Interesting...........

 

So what your saying is we need to perpetuate the cycle by supporting people who make bad decisions time after time. Buy a $1900 led lcd tv instead of one for $700, The new turbo diesel 4x4 pickup instead of a lesser gas 2x4. at 150,000 house instead of something lesser.

 

As you can imagine, I don't shed a tear when people get their homes foreclosed on. They buy into what the mortgage lender told them and what HG TV said about trading houses up.

 

I own my home, not renting it from the bank. Double payments instead of the new truck or TV.

 

So how many months of expenses are you supposed to have in a Savings account or liquid???? 6 months or a year???? Do you meet the suggested guidelines?

 

How many of you have more money on Credit cards than in savings account???????

 

Saving for retirement, are you????? Few of my friends are not.

 

 

Scoutfish, sorry to hear about your dad.

 

I live in the inner city, there is a park nearby. there is a group of African american young men who are down there nearly every day playing basketball. So your asking yourself what is out of ordinary here, they all are riding mobility chairs to and from the park. The city guy who mows and cleans up the trash said they are all on disability. Disability??????

 

I have some relatives who are disabled.......they are alcoholics. they get some sort of government aid and always take all of the left overs from the family get togethers. They always have their hands out.

 

Far as jobs go, A lot of things go into getting a job out of college. We typically have 3-5 college interns working for us. Everyone of them had jobs lined up before graduation, of course all of them complained about what they were hired for......$50k for a new engineer is pretty good if you ask me.

 

 

 

Yep, personal responsibility is another of my hot buttons.

[CalicoPenn]

Yep - I think I get a pretty good picture of what is wrong with this country. A decided lack of compassion and hatred for other people. The BSA sure knew what they were doing when they used Friendly instead of Compassionate in the Scout Law. Half the volunteers wouldn't be able to live up to the Scout Law if they had.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I feel compassion for a guy or gal who worked their butt off everyday at a job and bought a $1,700.00 tv that they could afford. Even if , due to the market and economy, lost their job due to cutbacks or worse, the company went under.

 

I do not feel bad for a guy who made barely over min wage who would rather use all his moneyy for tire snad rims and a bunch of video games while his child has caveties and he lets his house fall apart.

 

I do not feel bad for the guy who will also be talking on his $400.00 touch pad phone while collecting food stamps before going to hang out in the park all day playing basketball or video games on a $1700.00 tv that my taxes paid for when he could be working himself.

 

But the biggest issue here is real;izing the difference between a person who held a legitimate job,and who actually was living within their means at the time they bought the stuff they rightfully did a person who crys they cannoyt work, yet can dance, play basketball run a mile or ride bikes all day.

 

There is a difference.

Poor is not an all inclusive situation. Some poor people are lazy slobs who think all their issues, woes and trouble are the fault of others and the others need to handle it.

 

Other poor people are people who were not poor until chance or circumstance stepped in the way.

 

I have "kinda friends" couple who collect over $800.00 a month in food stamps. They sit on their fat ( and I do mean fat) butts all day playing video games. She decided back when she was 18 that she just didn't ant to work. She wanted to be a stay at home wife.

 

He is just lazy and think the world owes him something. He wants a job, but he's waiting on a job that pays $800.00 a week to test out new video games. I'm serious and not making that up.

 

Oh, they have 4 kids between them that involve 3 differet sets of parents: His, hers, and theirs.

 

Way different from a guy who at one time was buying what he could afford at the time he bought it, but then lost his job.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Speaking of pictures, this one sums up my feelings about the subject of this thread in a Scouting context:

 

http://www.scouters.us/images/c1992.jpg

 

I know there are larger versions of this available online, but I couldn't find one. But I think the meaning is clear.

[GernBlansten]

NJ, check out the words behind those boyz ... "To Help Other People At All Times" Looks like there must be text below that we can't see. "Except when they have giant TVs or don't meet my personal limits for compassion."

[vol_scouter]

Gern,

 

I think that folks are talking about two issues. One is the government spending our collective hard earned money for people who really are not poor. If they can afford a fancy cell phone with a data plan, cable television, large screen tv, designed tennis shoes, etc, they are not poor.

 

The second issue has to do with giving. So if the parents have wasted the income of the family, we are still free to give to the family so that the children are not hungry.

 

The real compassionate thing is still set up a security net that encourages people to work and gain pride in themselves than trapping them on welfare for the rest of there lives.

[scoutingagain]

I notice the list of moochers doesn't include bankers borrowing money from the Federal Reserve at near zero interest rates and lending it out to the US Government at 3 and 4% and giving themselves 7 figure bonuses for their incredible financial wizardry. Wonder how many big screen TVs, yachts, vacation houses etc. they own. Oh but maybe their OK.

 

Don't see the wealthy that park assets in offshore accounts to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. Wonder what they own.

 

Don't see the politicians and "public" servants that game the system to double dip and increase their pensions when they leave office.

 

Seems like the list focuses on one "class" of offenders. The wealthy complain that many "liberal" policies are based on class conflict. Well that goes both ways. A few poor folks aren't the only ones gaming the system as Beavah puts it. There are plenty or wealthy moochers out there too.

 

 

SA

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Ok

 

How does one determine when a person needs help?

 

I am obviously not qualified to determine this........... I have too much hatred, narcissism and a complete lack of compassion for anyone.

 

So is our model of poor or needy changed??????

 

there is a large element of working poor, the guys and gals working at Mcdonald's, Big box stores and the warehouses. They need help no doubt in my mind. They often work multiple jobs because the stores and warehouses will not give them more than 20 hours because of health insurance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gary_Miller]

Do to the goodness of our hearts we as a country have become enablers.

 

By making assistance easy we have enabled people to in the system of handouts.

 

If people had to give back in some way for what they receive people would not stay in the system long they would do whats needed to get out of the system as soon as possible. All the while being able to hold their head up high knowing they worked for what they received.

 

However there is no need because they can get the something without working for it.

 

Example: We have what we call the friendship coalition in our town. Each Tuesday they fix a meal for people in need, no questions asked if you think you need it your welcome to come. At the same time there is a pantry open where you can get food also. There is also have a garden in the summer so they can have fresh vegetables also. The point I'm making is that anyone can come and help work in the garden, fix the meals, or work in the pantry. However, I have yet to see anyone who gets a free meal or food from the pantry help out, and I've seen people reciving food talking on a cell phone, ect..

 

[sherminator505]

"Quick to judge... quick to anger... slow to understand." - N. Peart

[Mr. Boyce]

Beavah makes an interesting point.

 

A few years ago, a multimillionaire I knew, an elderly guy, was very keen on collecting all his Social Security benefits.

 

Well:

 

(1) he'd already received much more than he'd ever put in,

 

(2) it seems counterintuitive to even include someone in his income bracket into some kind of retirement system.

[Mr. Boyce]

. . . and of course this fellow was angry about welfare moochers! But don't most SS recipients take out more than they ever put in (with interest included)?

 

at any rate, here's what I think's wrong with the country: the idea that everyone's view or values are different, so no one person's views are better than any other persons.

 

This leads to anything goes pretty quickly. PC run amok!

[CalicoPenn]

You're right Mr. Boyce - the issue is too much Political Correctness. Why, we've all been so PC on the thread that no one has mentioned the elephant in the room.

 

If the picture that started this whole discussion was of a white woman, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And on the off chance that we were discussing it, we would be discussing the woman's main point, which isn't that she won't be getting heat assistance but that the process to apply was not fair. Instead of a proper application process for the heat assistance grants (which may have ruled her out anyway), grants were just given to the first 250 or so people that were in line to apply. Maybe the person 10 back in line from her was even more needy than the first 250-odd people - but no one will know because that person didn't get a chance to apply either, and there was no needs-based evaluation system set up.

 

Now I'm not suggesting there were racial motivations in this posting - but I am suggesting that it seems an awful lot like an attempt to resurrect the image of Ronald Reagan's mythical "Welfare Queen". And that's a divisive (and FALSE) image we shouldn't tolerate anymore.