Health Care Reform and the Law

[BrentAllen]

"We are not going to pass universal health care with a fifty-plus-one strategy."

 

Barack Obama

 

Just another on a long list of broken promises...

[GernBlansten]

Seems the unconstitutional provision could easily be remedied by just relabeling. Call it a mandatory federal tax to cover the uninsured freeloaders, then allow an exemption to that tax if you can prove you have private insurance. No requirement to buy private health insurance. But if you have health insurance, you are exempt.

Nothing unconstitutional about passing a tax. And it accomplishes the goal to make the freeloaders pay. We are paying for their health-care anyways. Might as well make them pony up something.

[OldGreyEagle]

Why is there a concern now to make the "free loaders" pay?

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Gern, that's how the current law is structured, eh? Yeh can buy private insurance or yeh can pay the tax. They should have written it as a tax credit for insurance instead of a tax penalty for not having insurance, but there's no difference. That's why I think da constitutional arguments are bogus, once yeh get beyond judges who don't have the decency to avoid conflicts of interest.

 

LOL, nice quote though, BrentAllen. Yep, I'd call that a broken promise.

 

Beavah

 

[GernBlansten]

The only way to achieve lower health insurance costs is to get more people into the system, especially the healthy young ones. I can only think of two ways to do this. Mandate everyone has insurance (the Republican option), or adopt a government run, public funded, socialized medicine system like Canada.

 

Those who don't elect to purchase insurance are freeloaders. They know they will be covered by the rest of us when they show up at the emergency room.

[BrentAllen]

Sure, call it a tax. Except Obama was adamant that it wasn't a tax.

 

From CNN:

In a testy exchange on ABC's "This Week," broadcast Sunday, Obama rejected the assertion that forcing people to obtain coverage would violate his campaign pledge against raising taxes on middle-class Americans.

 

"For us to say you have to take responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase," Obama said in response to persistent questioning, later adding: "Nobody considers that a tax increase."

 

The exchange, from ABC:

STEPHANOPOULOS: I -- I don't think I'm making it up. Merriam Webster's Dictionary: Tax -- "a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes."

 

OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam's Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you're stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition.

 

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you reject that its a tax increase?

 

OBAMA: I absolutely reject that notion.

 

So, which is it? A tax, which would mean Obama is breaking his campaign promise not to raise taxes on the middle class? Or something else?

 

I doubt Obama is very good at chess.

[GernBlansten]

So Brent, do you agree that simple wordsmithing will resolve the constitutional issues? Call it a tax as it is. But allow a tax exemption for those with private insurance. That seems constitutional.

[OldGreyEagle]

To be clear, I am against Free Loaders in the Healthcare system

 

Then again I am against all free loading and where is the outrage that illegal aliens AKA Undocumented Workers (sort of implies they do work) and other non citizens here illegally already avail themselves of the healthcare system, and the public school system and the public welfare system?

[BrentAllen]

No, Gern, just simply calling something a tax does not make it so, nor does it make it constitutional. Congress would still need to have constitutional power to institute the tax, and I don't see how this has anything to do with interstate commerce. Taxes usually cover government services. I fail to see how being forced to purchase private health insurance is somehow a government service.

[skeptic]

OGE; The outrage is where the most of them are. That is where we get the major problems, and where all but Arizona seem unable to "listen" to their constituents and do something about it. I just don't get how our state government can somehow think allowing these individuals to continue availing themselves of all these benefits. And I certainly do not understand the idea behind the "Dream Act". How are these people more important than our own "legal", but less wealthy citizens? I am all for education, but not as an added burden on me, my family, and the bankrupt state.

[scoutingagain]

"I fail to see how being forced to purchase private health insurance is somehow a government service. "

 

Which is one reason why, if the Dole/Romney approach to requiring people to take individual responsibility and purchase their own health insurance fails, the only alternative to being sure people pay their fair share for health insurance is to tax them for a government service,i.e. a single payer government health care.

 

Or we can continue to let them free load off the rest of us and keep the most expensive health care in the world, continuing to put our private employers at a disadvantage when competing against the rest of the world.

 

SA

 

 

 

[JoeBob]

Nobody argues that we shouldn't pay for the freeloaders' health care.

Why does everyone accept that premise?

Isn't death natural?

 

[GernBlansten]

"Taxes usually cover government services."

The tax would be collected to offset health care costs for the uninsured. It would be assessed on all citizens with an exemption for the insured.

So it would be a government service. How is that different than Social Security or Medicare taxes? Are those also unconstitutional?

[BS-87]

Social Security and Medicare are probably unconstitutional

[BrentAllen]

Or, you have hospitals go after those who had the option to purchase insurance through their employer but chose not to, for the full amount of their care. Run them through bankruptcy, if you have to. Offer more tax incentives to businesses to provide health insurance for their employees. Expand Medicare to cover low income and unemployed.

 

The US Gov't can't afford social security or the prescription drug program - how in the world are we going to be able to pay insurance premiums for the millions who don't currently have insurance? What will be the premium cost for the average family that the government will have to pick up?