Marijuana

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah writes:

Marijuana use has been increasing for the past three years among teens, so that now it has surpassed cigarette use on a "used this month" basis. It had been trendin' slowly down durin' the previous decade.

 

That correlates with da enactment and implementation of medical marijuana statutes in several states,

 

What? Medical marijuana statutes went down during the previous decade, and rose during the last 3 years?

 

and the prominence of "MJ is OK" media talk on the matter.

 

What? "MJ is OK" media talk went down during the previous decade, and rose during the last 3 years?

 

Beavah, correlation != causation, no matter how hard you try. But you aren't even trying hard, because you have no figures for what you claim MJ consumption correlates with. What hard numbers are you comparing? The ones you pull out of various orifices don't count.

[Beavah]

Well, others seem to see it if you don't.

 

"The increases in daily marijuana use are quite large, more than 10 percent," said NIDA director Dr. Nora Volkow at a Tuesday news conference. "Young people are particularly vulnerable to the diverse effects of drugs [and] the younger the age of initiation, the greater the likelihood of dependence, not just on marijuana but on a wide variety of drugs." The increases we are seeing in marijuana use in teenagers need to be taken very seriously, Volkow says.

 

Volkow and R. Gil Kerlikowske, director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, noted that the increase in marijuana use has coincided with a decline in the number of kids who view marijuana as harmful. The two experts attributed that trend, at least in part, to the recent developments over medical marijuana.

 

"Mixed messages about drug legalization, particularly marijuana, may be to blame. Such messages certainly don't help parents who are trying to prevent kids from using drugs," said Gil Kerlikowske, director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy, in a statement. "The Obama administration is aggressively addressing the threat of drug use and its consequences through a balanced and comprehensive drug control strategy, but we need parents and other adults who influence children as full partners in teaching young people about the risks and harms associated with drug use, including marijuana."

 

"Calling smoked marijuana medicine is absolutely incorrect and it sends a terrible message," Kerlikowske said. "Right now, we're not being particularly responsible adults by telling people that that smoked marijuana is medicine when, in fact, it is not."

 

Volkow also blames teens loosening attitudes and increased use on the widespread debate over medical marijuana. She says the debate may have led to a perception among teens that marijuana is beneficial not detrimental.

 

Beavah

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Those experts haven't quoted any figures either. And this statement: "Calling smoked marijuana medicine is absolutely incorrect" is especially bad. People who smoked prescribed marijuana ARE taking medicine. People get buzzed from Robitussin, but that doesn't mean that people who take it for a cold aren't taking medicine.

[Beavah]

Yah, well, at some point yeh have to decide whether to believe people with expertise, or whether yeh want to be one of those climate change deniers. I suppose it's too much effort to dig a bit yourself. Of course I wouldn't trust that ultra-conservative Obama administration on an issue like this, eh?

 

Da UM researchers who conducted the study said the increase in use was no surprise, because they'd been tracking an upswing in da belief among young people that MJ is "not dangerous" for several years, and upswings in use always follow that figure. And that, as da experts note, corresponds to da legalization efforts.

 

I now return you to "la la la I won't listen to data I disagree with".

 

B

[BS-87]

I can believe that considering smoking it is not the best form for the medicine. Smoking just about anything is an awful idea so far as respiratory health is concerned.

 

But the THC has very serious medical uses that whatever article you took these quotes from is intentionally overlooking.

 

For people with severe nausea from chemotherapy, it can ease their nausea and create appetite.

 

For people suffering from a number of anxieties and depressions, the effects are incredible. Relaxation and euphoric sensation is widely accepted as treatment for these conditions. If you don't believe me, explain Xanex.

 

The UM doctors would not ignore this, and so somewhere along the way your article did, and intentionally used the quote of saying smoking it is not medicine to try and discredit it as a medicine altogether.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Sorry Beavah, argument from authority isn't valid either. If these authorities don't back up their assertions with actual data, it's a pig in a poke. And yes, people whose job it is to be against using drugs really aren't unbiased when it comes to using drugs. I already pointed out one egregious error -- it's ridiculous to say that smoking marijuana isn't taking medicine for people who have prescriptions to smoke marijuana. They manifestly ARE taking medicine. Saying it isn't is 100% drug hysteria.

 

Now, if these experts want to publish their data showing a correlation, that would be a start. But it doesn't look like they have, so there's still no data to argue over.

[GernBlansten]

I think we all need to put "Reefer Madness" in our Netflix queue and get back to the forum with our findings.

[Beavah]

it's ridiculous to say that smoking marijuana isn't taking medicine for people who have prescriptions to smoke marijuana. They manifestly ARE taking medicine.

 

Yeh forget, Merlyn, that these are federal officials or heads of nation-wide groups, eh?

 

For the federal government, smoking marijuana is not taking medicine. It is not FDA approved, it is not backed by reasonable research or practice guidelines. It's drug abuse. For all da reasons vol_scouter explains in detail, it's not sound medical practice. Ecstasy can make yeh euphoric too, eh, and some young folks use it to self-medicate for depression and anxiety, in da same way they use MJ and booze and other things. But that doesn't make ecstasy use "taking medicine".

 

States allow voter referendums, so the "mob" can decide what "medicine" it wants through direct democracy, eh? They don't have to listen to da science. If they want laetrile or cactus buttons or X or da health insurers in the state to pay for witch doctors, they can so vote, and as long as it doesn't affect interstate commerce or just isn't worth da enforcement effort, they can get away with it. But that doesn't make it sound medical practice.

 

It's not da authorities not publishin', eh? It's the news media just pullin' sound bites. As an informed reader, yeh have to go pull da studies and read 'em. But if yeh just take shots without doin' that, then you're no different than the climate change deniers.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[BS-87]

Really doesn't bother me if someone self medicates with alcohol or ecstasy. Sounds a lot like the government trying to protect people from themselves.

 

If I knew something would help me feel better when I'm sick, I'd at least like to make an informed decision myself as to whether it's worth whatever risks are associated with that remedy.

 

What are the risks of utilizing MJ medicinally or recreationally anyway?

 

Oh yeah... Reefer Madness...

 

Rather be in climate change denial than 1950's irrational fears denial...

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Yeh forget, Merlyn, that these are federal officials or heads of nation-wide groups, eh?

 

So?

 

For the federal government, smoking marijuana is not taking medicine.

 

For the federal government, marijuana is a narcotic, which it is not.

 

I prefer to deal with reality, and I prefer not to have a nanny state that prohibits anything that can possibly harm anyone. You and vol_scouter don't even appear to be consistent regarding dangerous drugs like alcohol and tobacco; I haven't seen either of you advocate that they be illegal like MJ.

 

(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[vol_scouter]

Marinol is a legal drug that has the active ingredients of marijuana. Smoking marijuana is not FDA approved, is not medically needed, smoking is harmful to the smokers and those nearby, smoking marijuana impairs drivers harming innocent people. There is no medical reason to smoke marijuana. It is smoked to get high. Harming more people is not ethical or moral.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Anti-nausea drugs don't work if you can't keep them down.

 

vol_scouter, is getting high itself immoral?

 

vol_scouter, should alcohol and/or tobacco be banned? You keep dodging this question.

[Beavah]

Yep, tobacco should be banned. Even in small quantities it has proven harmful to da individual and those nearby.

 

Nope, alcohol should be left alone. In moderate quantities, it has a mix of mildly beneficial effects (cardiac) and mildly negative effects (slight impairment for high mental-load tasks like flyin' airplanes).

 

MJ is like tobacco, with da added negative of high level of mental impairment. Those health risks, plus da high social cost of increased accessibility to minors makes medical-use legalization a bad public policy. Da limited medical effect to a small population is offset by the fact that they can be treated as effectively by other means. As vol_scouter has pointed out, if they can't keep down marinol, they should be on IV or injected anti-emetics which work better, so the "can't keep it down" argument doesn't wash no matter how many times it gets repeated.

 

So... cigarette-like health risks to self and neighbors, high impairment risk to self and some to neighbors, high social cost of accessibility to teens and early-20s young people, and near-zero offsetting health benefits to a very small population. Bad public policy.

 

Beavah

 

[BS-87]

Actually Beavah, I think vol_scouter was referring to the only medical reason to smoke MJ. As you don't have to keep the pill down as it's inhaled instead, with something like a vaporizer you're not even inhaling smoke.

 

Tobacco is on it's way to being banned, but why? It's effects are known and there was a time it served as a huge cash crop and source of income both in production and taxes for our country.

 

And I argue your point on alcohol, because moderate quantities is not what the problem populations consume. And I assume we're talking about problem populations like kids since you're not attacking the cancer patients and grandmas out there. And under heavy consumption alcohol can not only cause greater impairment than MJ, it can also be toxic even lethal!

 

Also, you're vastly understating the potential medical benefits of MJ in medicine, as it could easily become the least expensive and least intensive form of treatment for many conditions.

[vol_scouter]

BS-87,

 

You misunderstood me, there is absolutely no medical reason to smoke marijuana - none. I care for cancer patients and can control nausea and emesis just fine without ever needing for my patient to smaoke marijuana. It is only an excuse to get high. Smoking marijuana is still a federal crime and there exists NO medical need. The legal oral medication, Marinol, does just fine. If the patient cannot keep oral anti-emetics down, IV meds can be given via their port for chemotherapy. If the emesis is so significant theat it cannot be easily controlled at home, the petient needs to be seen. Since some of the chemotherapy medications are nephrotoxic, dehydration is a serious problem and the patient should be seen.