More Alaska Drama

[Beavah]

Yah, 83, we folks in flyover country are blessed, eh?

 

We have neither sea cucumbers nor sand fleas. Nor Ivy League institutions, eh?

 

Say what yeh want about our erudition or logic, that clearly means we have da most common sense!

 

B

 

[JoeBob]

Hey Pack,

 

Could you give us a short list of 'the Bush era lies' so we'll all know what you're talking about?

 

JoeBob

[83Eagle]

Well, Beavah, all I know is I read your OP and just fired off a little, deliberately non-partisan, quip.

 

Next thing I know I'm being treated to a five-paragraph dissertation (edited post-submission, nonetheless) that has me feeling like I'm in front of the class with my hand out waiting to be whacked by the ruler held in the stern hand of Sister Mary.

 

Well, I'm not gonna get into that argument because, on one hand, I'm not gonna concede to the premise that is oh-so-casually tossed in. And on the other hand, I can see this troll coming from a mile away. In the words of the W the Elder as channeled by Dana Carvey: "Not...gonna...do it!"

 

And on the other other hand, it's a nice day, I have a den meeting to plan, and my son just got off the bus. I gots lots better things to do with my time!

 

[NJCubScouter]

JoeBob: Start with "Mission Accomplished"?

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

Well now that Pack has been outed as a troll, enquiring minds want to know - what color is Pack's wild and crazy hair? Purple? Green? Or the more traditional Hot Pink?

[gwd-scouter]

I will tell you that Pack is not a troll. But, if any of you can guess what special pillow cover he takes to summer camp you win a prize.

 

This thread has digressed from its original post, but I would like to add something that has been bothering me since I keep hearing about "fly over country" and in other places about "real Americans."

 

I grew up just outside Washington, DC (Potomac Maryland). I now live in a small-ish town in upstate South Carolina. While each place has differences in lifestyle, neither has an ownership on values or heritage, American or otherwise. We are all Americans, no matter where we live. Got that?

[Scoutfish]

Ever notice that the people who have the ego to run for such positions are also the people who's ego cannot possibly fathom that a person other than themselves were chossen by the public.

 

I mean, can you ever believe such a crazy thing could possibly happen?

 

These same egotistical people usually start their training watching NASCAR!

 

 

Not picking on NASCAR fans as a blanket statement - love it myself. But too many are just wound too tight. The only way their favorite driver could possibly not win is due to a joint mass conspiracy by the (former) big three in Detroit, the FCC and television media, gasoline and oil manufacturers, all associated product sponsors, the other 41 teams besides the winner and the conspired against loser, and all the fans of all other drivers who obviously sold out the integrity of the sport.

 

 

Come to think ot, maybe NASCAR should drop racing and become candidatorial public Image consultants!

[packsaddle]

As gwd-scouter can atest, I do kind of look like one. Don't bother to ask my wife about it, either. BTW, I think I revealed the pillow thing in these threads a long time ago. I could be wrong but I bet OGE is working on it right now.

 

Anyway, 83Eagle, you're right, I took your quip way too seriously and I apologize. You might not like me in person either.

 

So....was I wrong about Powell and Riley?

 

JoeBob, NJ had a good start but the ones that really raised the pucker factor for me were the statements that there was "no doubt" about WMD. I took those statements at face value and gave my support for subsequent decisions on that basis. I am willing to admit that I was hoodwinked...but I WAS hoodwinked by an administration to whom I had given my trust.

 

[vol_scouter]

Beavah,

 

I did that see that news. It is sad but it does say that Alaskans picked the better person if that is his response prior to the vote counting concluding. I totally agree that he should have filed in state court and once all avenues have been exhausted in state court say "I lost". Also, using a reasonable man test, I would assume that most of the names would be reasonably interpreted as Murkowski. This is not a federal issue. Even if there is evidence of vote tampering, the first court should be state. I hate to see any RINOs in congress but Miller may turn out to be one as well with this kind of response.

[Woapalanne]

"JoeBob: Start with "Mission Accomplished"? "

 

If you are talking about a certain banner on an aircraft carrier, THAT vessel's mission WAS accomplished. And she was on her way home for R&R.

 

Don't confuse a "mission" with a "war" or even a "campaign".

 

 

 

[skeptic]

No one doubted what Bush meant; lets not stretch it too far.

[JoeBob]

'No doubt about WMDs' was not a lie.

 

1- Saddam had already used WMDs on the Kurds.

2- Small quantities of chemical weapon artillery shells were found. (Just no big stockpiles)

3- Saddam thought he had WMDs, from his correspondence.

4- The Brits and other allies thought Iraq had WMDs.

5- Congress critters on the intellience committees thought he had WMDs.

6- The previous Dem administration, including Bill And Hillary, thought Iraq had WMDs.

 

If the weather man predicts 100% chance of rain, and it doesn't rain; is he mistaken, or is he a liar?

Are all the other fellows listed above liars? If Bush lied about WMD, then they all must be liars, too.

 

Got any more 'Bush era lies'?

[packsaddle]

from FactCheck: "In fact, before the war Bush and others often downplayed or omitted any mention of doubts about Saddam's nuclear program."

There WAS doubt.

LIE

 

OK, "Citing Bush administration officials, The New York Times reported Sunday that Iraq tried to buy thousands of high-strength aluminum tubes.

 

The tubes, Rice said, "are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs." CNN September 8, 2002

 

Here is the analysis: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/index.htm

 

an excerpt:

"Aluminum Tubes

 

At around this time, the U.S. learned that Iraq was interested in buying 60,000 aluminum tubes (advertisements appeared on the internet). A CIA analyst who was not a nuclear weapons specialist became convinced that the high-strength alloy tubes could only be intended for uranium enrichment centrifuges to manufacture nuclear weapons. The CIA endorsed his opinion and passed it on to Bush in a Presidents Daily Brief. An April 10 follow-up report was circulated among national security officials and the CIA analysis was immediately questioned by nuclear weapons experts. On April 11 scientists led by the chief of the Oak Ridge National Laboratorys Advanced Technology Division reported that the diameter of the tubes was off by 50 percent (compared to a centrifuge that Iraq tested in 1990), among other discrepancies. The Oak Ridge team concluded the tubes were probably not intended for centrifuges.

 

On May 9 the Energy Department reported in a Daily Intelligence Highlight, published on a website used by the White House and the intelligence community, that the intercepted tubes were quite similar to ones that Iraq used to build conventional rocket launchers. In June the U.S. got direct access to the intercepted shipment. The CIA analyst admitted they were the wrong size for standard centrifuges, but said they matched the dimensions of those used for a centrifuge designed in the 1950s by a German scientist. The scientist told him they werent even close.

 

This direct access to the tubes was met with the highest possible level of interest within the administration. The State Department alerted Secretary Powell, and arranged for a sample to be shown to President Bush immediately -- before even a preliminary determination had been made as to the tubes likely end use. (U.N. arms inspectors, on the other hand, planned to analyze samples before drawing conclusions.) What did get priority was planning for publicizing the interdiction to our advantage, and Getting the right story out. [Doc. 4]

 

For its part, the CIA notified Congress of the development immediately -- without prior coordination with the State Department. [Doc. 5] The agency produced at least nine reports throughout the summer of 2002 that said that the tubes proved that Iraq had restarted a nuclear weapons program, documents that were given to Bush and other high-level officials. Energy Department and State Department Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts, who assumed that the claim had long since been put to rest, did not see the reports. (Note 10)

 

More than a year after the interdiction, on September 8, 2002, the New York Times reported that American officials believed that the tubes were meant for use in centrifuges. (Note 11) The report was based on documents deliberately leaked by the White House. Cheney, Powell, and Condoleezza Rice appeared on Sunday talk shows the same day to draw attention to the report. Rice said that the tubes were only suitable for nuclear weapons programs, and warned, most famously, we dont want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud. (Note 12)"

LIE

[Woapalanne]

"No one doubted what Bush meant; lets not stretch it too far."

 

No stretch. Bush used it correctly and congratulated that particular vessel on completing its mission. It was the "news" media that stretched it. For one purpose, of course.

[GernBlansten]

Interesting take Woapalanne.

The speech Bush gave on the aircraft carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him was to announce combat operations in Iraq had ended, aka Mission Accomplished. Not the mission for the ship, but for the entire military exercise in Iraq.

 

Ever see one of these banners on any other ship returning to port?