This just in: The Obama Deficit Reduction Plan

[packsaddle]

So we've wandered off topic quite a ways...as usual. I'm glad you mentioned transmission losses. This is one of the problems with distribution. Another problem with reliance on solar or wind or geothermal is exemplified by the preposterous image of an electric airplane. Or electric tractors plowing miles and miles of prairie fields. Or electricity-based pesticides and fertilizers. The technologies for such fantasies are a long way off and likely very costly.

But T Boone Pickens has backed off wind. Solar thrives off of government incentives. Nuclear has received incredible government subsidies since day one and now the politics of nuclear is feeding on itself. Biofuel is quite possibly simply a boondoggle. Hydrogen most certainly is. In a truly free market system, none of them would have a chance.

The reason is that there is simply way too much cheap fossil fuel available. And this is going to be the case for quite a while. We, as a nation, could turn our energy situation around on a dime, quite literally, if we priced energy in terms that reflect its value. We don't. Gasoline prices around here increased by $0.20 with the last 7 days and consumers are merely shrugging. If there had been an equivalent increase in the gas tax, there would be a political upheaval. Yet, either way we are enjoying incredibly cheap energy...and often squandering it. We have expectations for lifestyle that depend on more and more energy. Status, for some of us, seems to depend on conspicuous consumption of energy (and here I include the hypocrite, Al Gore).

We could turn all of this around if we wanted to. The problem IS that we don't want to...really. Like Dubya said, we're addicted (and addiction is one thing I ascribe to him as a great authority) to oil. And energy in general, I add. We have that needle in our vein and we simply don't want to lose...the...feeling....

[GernBlansten]

"preposterous image of an electric airplane"

 

You luddites!

 

I've seen the future and it is now. At the shop where my airplane was being serviced, a Cessna 172 was being converted to electric. My club donated the hull, my mechanic was doing the work. Has the backing of Cessna. I sat in it. It is real.

 

http://www.byeenergy.com/pages/green-flight-main.html

 

At Oshkosh this year, the major theme was electric aircraft. In fact, just yesterday, one made its maiden first flight.

 

http://www.sonexaircraft.com/press/releases/pr_120310.html

 

Not as preposterous as you might think.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Let me know when they're booking passengers through Expedia. That's NEO-Luddite to you! (This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Basementdweller]

Ok everyone has spouted off now.

 

 

 

So as a group we must agree our Nation cannot continue the irresponsible spending habits.

 

 

We the people need to harden up and pay for the sins of our parents. I do not want to burden my children with my and my parents debt.

 

 

So gentlemen, are you man enough to support this selfless act and pay down our national debt.

[vol_scouter]

Basementdweller,

 

As you read this thread, there is agreement that though decisions that must be made and many things cut or eliminated. I was surprised because it was universal. Some of my favorite sparring buddies on the left and arch conservatives alike all agreed. I believe that the public is more accepting than the politicians.

[Beavah]

I believe that the public is more accepting than the politicians.

 

Yah, I think that's the case. Yeh put 'em in Washington and their brains go to mush, and their souls follow.

 

The nation is cryin' for real statesmanship.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

Agreed. Other than the loudest voices at both ends of the political spectrum, I'm seeing and hearing a general consensus among many folks that now is the time to do something and they understand there will be some sacrifices, whether it's increases in taxes or a reduction in entitlements, they know it will be something.

 

We need leaders willing to lead instead of bowing to the carnival barkers on both sides of the aisle.

 

SA

 

 

[packsaddle]

"The nation is cryin' for real statesmanship."

As much as I agree with the need for real statesmanship, I don't see the nation cryin' for it. We've needed it for decades but we repeatedly went the other way. Obama looked like he had statesman qualities but his actions...what can I say? Let's face it, he was elected partly because he was NOT Bush and to many seemed to be the farthest from Bush. But his embrace and continuation of so many Bush policies has put him into some other category. He came in with strong criticism of - and pledge to end - the Bush tax cuts. Now, with the compromise, he's likely to elect to keep all of them through his entire first (and possibly only) term. We're not 'out' of Iraq and there are more troops in Afghanistan than there were under the Bush administration.

Gitmo still is, and likely will remain, open. There's not much, if anything, different under the Patriot Act. The response to the economic crisis can hardly be called 'bold' or 'decisive'. In foreign policy he wouldn't even qualify as a dilettante. Even something as peripheral as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is likely to whimper into the next administration as is. It's like a smart person entered the room but was infected by a 'stupid virus' from the former occupant of the desk.

Still, I wonder - given the magnitude of the train wreck that Bush left behind - if ANY statesman could do better? As it is, I suspect we still haven't seen the worst of it...it could get much, much worse yet.

But look around...does anyone see a statesman or stateswoman out there anywhere? Not within my line of sight anyway. Could it be that they've looked, considered the situation for a few seconds, and then carefully hidden themselves from view?

[SR540Beaver]

"The nation is cryin' for real statesmanship."

 

Then why won't they elect any? There are people out there with hard answers and solutions to the tough issues, but they can't get elected. Ron Paul and former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson come to mind. But if they were to be elected Presidnet and attempted to implement common sense solutions to the tough issues, they would face massive opposition from both sides. American like to admire the idea of a statesman from afar, but they seem to desire partisan gridlock as that is what they elect each election.

[skeptic]

Because too few vote to start with? Half the complainers will tell you they do not vote because it makes no difference, or some other lame excuse. Yet they often are the loudest. It is embarrassing to supposedly be a "builder of democracies", yet have a citizenry that does not take advantage of the system.

 

That infamous "silent" majority we constantly note. Any suggestions how to get them to speak up?

[elvisB]

The consensus is clear that deficit reduction is a must. Although this plan would make a dent, it is largely at the expense of the most economically vulnerable. However, this deficit reduction plan would allow debt collectors to call the cell phones of people who are late on government-backed loans. The administration believes the move is a necessary one in light of the increasing reliance on cell phones.

[AZMike]

Man, you brought this thread back from the dead after 4 years...

[NJCubScouter]

Man' date=' you brought this thread back from the dead after 4 years...[/quote']

 

Yes, and he did it for the purpose of including a link at the end which pretended to have something to do with the subject being discussed, but which was actually just an advertisement for something unrelated. I have deleted the link. I almost deleted the entire post, because it was clearly a nonsense post designed solely to allow the posting of the misleading spam link.