Social Security

[The Blancmange]

 

"Social Security has been the most successful government program in history, and can continue to be so with some modest, common sense adjustements."

 

WHAT?

Presumably you disagree. Can you identify a program that has done more toward acheiving its goals?

[Stosh]

If I received all the money I put into SS over the past 45 years at a modest interest rate I would retire a multi-millionaire. Instead I'm going to be getting a pauper's government dole in my retirement years. It's the biggest rip off the government has come up with until the schemes devised over the past 2 years. "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. The check is in the mail!" What a farce!

 

Stosh

[Knot Head]

SS is not really a Ponzi scheme because participation is mandatory. With that said SS is not actuarially sound and thus will require adjustment to either the revenue stream (taxes) or the benefit side (payments). There will probably be an adjustment to both sides so that more people will have their SS benefits taxed and working people will have their taxes increased.

 

I dont consider SS in my retirement because it will either be broke or my benefits will be cut or taxed down to zero. So I expect to pay into the system for my entire working life yet receive nothing back in return. In that respect its worse than a Ponzi because typically people get a few cents on the dollar back from a Ponzi.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

[GernBlansten]

When one only considers their contribution vs. their personal benefit, SS is a bad investment. It isn't an investment, its a social program.

Consider the cost of having the elderly, infirm, incompetent living on the street in destitute poverty. Of being one step away from losing everything you've worked for. That is a cost not often calculated in to the overall benefit of the program.

 

Go ahead, envision eliminating it. Put most of the elderly out on the street to beg for scraps. Put the invalid and incompetent out on the street to do whatever it takes to survive. Then calculate if the cost outweighs the benefits.

[Eagle92]

Gern,

What did folks do before Social Security? They looked to family and friends for help.

 

Problem was that the Great Depression was so massive, it effected nearly everyone. FDR tried this idea out, which is Keynesian Economics, and it didn't help get us out of the Depression, and some economists say it made it last longer. Only WWII was able to get us out of the Depression.

[GernBlansten]

They died in the streets.

[Eagle92]

Gern,

Nope. Forgot to add they also looked to their churches. Why do you think many hospitals have religious connections.

[GernBlansten]

What if they weren't religous?

[Eagle92]

Good question. If the religious orders that handled New Orleans hospitals were the norm, and they were, they took all comers.

[GernBlansten]

I'd rather not rely on the charity of the current religious right to service those who do not follow their theology. Their record is not good.

[Eagle92]

Sorry you're wrong their. if you look at hospitals and caring for the poor, then the 'religious right" have beent he ones who took care of folks for centuries. Within the Catholic Chruch for example are a multitude of religious orders devoted to caring for the sick and poor, i.e. Mother Theresa of Calcutta and her religious order. In times of disaster,I know one of the local Baptist churches sends volunteers out to help. And I cna go on and on.

[Beavah]

Yah, I can see da benefit to a certain limited social safety net. Especially in our more mobile society it's hard to rely on family who might live out of state (or out of country). And there are some real family tragedies where I think we all would admit that it's a good thing the person or family had something to turn to for help.

 

But is it really necessary for every one of us old folks to be on the dole?

 

That's all social security is, eh? Da welfare dole for the elderly. Expecting whichever young people are working now (our kids and grandkids and all those young immigrants we love to hate) to support us with welfare checks. After our generation spent da Trust Fund on guns and butter.

 

Where is da personal responsibility? We elected da folks who spent down the trust fund. Our mistake. We were younger and less responsible than we should have been. So after spending our contributions to the system, now we feel we deserve welfare checks from young workers who are struggling to make ends meet?

 

B

[GernBlansten]

One could make an arguement for means testing SS payments. Too many retirees collect it that clearly don't need it. Of course that would enforce the fact it is a social program and not an investment. But I've never said it was an investment.

[packsaddle]

As I have written before, I support the idea of eliminating Social Security and Medicare in order to balance the budget and pay down the debt. Immediately. Just stop the checks. The population will shrink fairly quickly or at least become younger on average...and there will be more jobs open for those young people, not to mention much, much cheaper housing as all that real estate goes on the market for whatever price can be gotten. If combined with elimination of the minimum wage, just think of how much cheaper labor would be. We could begin to actually compete with China and bring a lot of that industry home.

This country made the decision over a generation ago to adopt a Darwinian approach to our socioeconomic system. The 'entitlements' are just a costly vestige of a bygone experiment. Rightly or wrongly, the country has maneuvered itself to a situation that demands draconian action and I support such a 'sacrifice'. For the sake of our children.

It would simultaneously solve many problems and greatly strengthen our country while providing a solidifying admission of the success of social Darwinism.

Or...things could get really bad.

[CalicoPenn]

Pack:

 

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