The other thread (for those wanting to discuss homosexuality)

[Beavah]

Engineer61 wrote:

 

Oddly, and maybe this should be another thread... why is homosexuality an issue in BSA anymore anyway?

 

1) We know from the Oregon case that BSA has pedophiles in the adult ranks. As far as I know, none of the

perps were homosexual, making them bisexual.

 

2) BSA has instituted YPT to circumvent the issues 1.

 

3) Therefore a homosexual participant should not be an issue.

 

---

 

In response:

 

1) Almost all of the perpetrators have been homosexual. Very few (none of da public cases) were in heterosexual relationships of any kind. Folks lobbying for a position will argue that they were ephebophile homosexuals or pedophile homosexuals which is "different."

 

2) BSA YPT does not prevent abuse by scouters. It is most effective as a defense against (false) accusations or as a way of avoidin' legal liability by showing due diligence, and might sorta help prevent initial abuse at BSA events. Almost all initial scouter abuse of boys happens outside of Scouting events, tradin' on the Scouting relationship to lower the barriers. That was da case in Oregon and elsewhere. Only rarely does the abuse progress to occurring on actual scouting activities.

 

3) Therefore homosexuality remains an issue for many parents, regardless of whether or not it really is a factor in abuse. It is perceived to be.

 

But da bigger point for many parents and organizations is the point about being an appropriate role model and adult mentor. That persists regardless of whether or not there is abuse risk.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[shrubber]

I look at it this way.

After promoting a great program for young men, the next major responsiblity of BSA is the safety of its participants.

And go ahead and flame all you want here.

The number one method of sexual attack on young men/boys in and out of the program is sodomy.

Why on earth would you allow an avowed sodomite a Leadership role?

[The Blancmange]

So lesbians are OK then, right?

[GernBlansten]

You do know what the definition of sodomy is don't you? I will guarantee you that sodomites are already in our midst. And they meet BSA membership standards.

[shrubber]

Yes, and if you discuss your advocacy of sodomy in a scout setting, you will be told to leave the group. Hetero or otherwise.

Homosexual men, advocating sodomy, and sodomy, being far and away the prefered method of attack on young men/boys, should not be allowed to serve as volunteers.

(That's a lot of commas. sorry,,,,,)

[packsaddle]

Beavah, I hope you're happy.

[GernBlansten]

I would hope that you even bringing up sodomy in a scouting setting would have you removed. Scouting is supposed to be asexual. You brought sodomy into the discussion, not me.

[The Blancmange]

How about celibate homosexuals? They're OK, too?

[VigilEagle04]

A pedophile is going to be a pedophile, whether homosexual or heterosexual. Women are allowed to be unit leaders, be on outings with boys, the whole nine yards. In venturing there is the co-ed issue, and there are co-ed leaders. If we allow this, I don't see why allowing homosexuals is any different.

 

Now, I don't know much about the abuse cases in other areas, I do know of two in this area, and both were committed by heterosexual, married men with no reason to see it as otherwise. The wive's had no idea, no hint as to this stuff occurring. I've known homosexuals that were involved as Scouts with no issues what-so-ever. So you really just never know.

 

 

[sherminator505]

"1) Almost all of the perpetrators have been homosexual. Very few (none of da public cases) were in heterosexual relationships of any kind. Folks lobbying for a position will argue that they were ephebophile homosexuals or pedophile homosexuals which is "different." "

 

No, Beavah. You are wrong. In my hometown, we had a Scouter who abused Scouts. He did not profess to be a homosexual, in fact he held himself out to be heterosexual and as "normal" as anyone. In the end, several boys came forward, the disgraced Scouter committed suicide upon learning that the authorities were on their way, and not long after that G2SS came out.

 

Abusers will not come out and tell you they are gay. They will do anything they can not to draw attention to themselves at all. Unless you have some statistics to back up your arguments, Beavah, please do yourself a favor and stick to things that are factual. Thanks.

[Beavah]

Yah, packsaddle, I really had hopes there for a bit that da thread would just die

 

Lots of homosexuals claim to be straight in public, Sherm. A few even get married. That doesn't mean they are accurately representing their orientation in public. If your definition of homosexual orientation is "what the fellow claimed on da news cameras", then I'm not sure that counts as "fact.". Especially when you're talking decades ago before G2SS came out.

 

B

[VigilEagle04]

Your statement is correct Beavah. Honestly, those that have abused Scouts though, most didn't proclaim to be homosexuals. I'm not even sure if I know of any that have, even after the fact. Maybe it's not the openly gay people we should worry about.

[sherminator505]

"Lots of homosexuals claim to be straight in public, Sherm."

 

And yet, strangely some of us seem to me more concerned with homosexuals who are up front about their orientation. Why? Is it because they dare exercise their First Amendment rights and make some of us feel all oogy?

[GernBlansten]

"I am not gay, I have never been gay. I love my wife." Famous Foot Tapper.

[NJCubScouter]

Some people are forgetting that the BSA policy only deals with those who are openly gay. If someone is an adult leader in the BSA and is not openly gay, and abuses a child, he didn't violate the policy against being openly gay, he violated the policy (and law) against abusing children. So if the BSA were to allow openly gay people to be leaders, it would have nothing to do with the incidents of child abuse. (And whenever there are articles about child abuse incidents, they always interview the neighbors who say "We never suspected a thing, he and his wife and children always seemed to so happy, he was a pillar of the community, etc. etc.")