Improper Adult Scout Interactions

[Cleto]

What would be an appropriate action for this scenario?

 

A young adult leader (suspect adult) begins having private conversations with scouts. He mentions to a person that he's having discussions with scouts that they wouldn't want parents to know. The Scoutmaster is informed and little is done other than the suspect leader is not do have any interaction with scouts and to keep next to the SM. A few months down the road one of the scouts mentions to another adult leader that he was told by the suspect leader that a conversation they were having was to be a secret between the two. The suspect leader asked the scout what three people in the troop he would like to see removed. The suspect adult then names his three: another leader and two other individuals. This suspect leader does not care for the adult's son as well.

 

There is no evidence of sexual misconduct.

[mikecummings157]

If he's having one on one contact with youth, report it per your council's Youth Protection policy. Let them sort it out.

[evmori]

I'm not sure there is a problem with the contact with the Scouts. It sounds like this was visible to all. What seems to be suspect is what was said.

[ScoutNut]

First you state he is a "young adult leader". Could this mean that he is a former youth of the Troop who has aged out, and has become an adult leader in his Troop?

 

Often young ASM's, of 18-21 years old, who are former youth members, have a hard time separating the youth they were from the adult they are now considered to be. These are boys they know, and have played with. Some they might even be buddies with outside of Scouts. It can be a difficult transition.

 

It sounds like he is not really hiding this. He mentioned to "a person" that he was talking to the Scouts about things "they wouldn't want parents to know". That can cover a lot of ground, from relationships to dumb stuff like who you dislike in the Troop. Did this "person" talk to the ASM about these discussions? It seems that after this "person" told the SM, the SM did have a talk to the ASM.

 

Cleto, I must say, it seems to me that it is very possible that you have a personal bone to pick with this ASM (suspect leader, really?). Were you by any chance on his list of folks he would like to see removed from the Troop? Could it be your son the ASM does not care for?

 

Talking trash with the Scouts does not make him a predator, just young, and real dumb. It sounds like the SM needs to have another, stronger, face-to-face with his young ASM. The ASM should re-do the BSA Youth Protection training as well.

 

[Cleto]

 

Correct, it is what was said and not the fact it was a one on one. The young leader is 23 and I consider that young. The leader did not mention it to any other leader but to a parent nearby. He informed the scouts to "keep it a secret." Isn't this a violation? I've been trained through three or more different youth protection programs and they mention the secrecy as a red flag. Indeed, interviews with molested individuals mention innocent secrets at first. Now, I reiterate that there was no known sexual misconduct between this person and scouts. Talking trash is not appropriate and is a potential problem within the troop, but it seems not a big deal with any of you.

Yes, I'm one of the leaders, but I'm a big boy. I did not know of this until an email was sent by a scout complaining about him. His parents want him removed.

Thank you for your thoughts. I gather that no one considers it to be worth making a bigger deal out of it. Again, thanks.

[Scoutfish]

" He informed the scouts to "keep it a secret." Isn't this a violation? I've been trained through three or more different youth protection programs and they mention the secrecy as a red flag."

 

 

Well..... It's a grey area isn'tit?

 

There are suppose to be no secrets right? But what if a couple ASM's have a talk with the boys about making some sort of gift, or presentation for the SM's birthday, retirement , or an award he got?

 

Still asking the boys to keep a secret, but that's not what the spirit of the rule meant.

 

Now, is it really a secret, or a secret onlyfrom certain individuals? I mean, you know about it, the SM knows about it, and now an entire forum has a vague version of it. Definantly not secret anymore!

 

I'd have a talk with the young man and explain that :

 

1)He's acting in ways that don't particularly suit a leader. He should never ever try to do anything that might divide the boys up.

 

2) His actions..allthough not necessarily covered under the spirit of the meaning of no secrets...pose the potential to cause others to think that he may be indeed potentailly violating YP. If people think he's violating YP, it's a big hole to dig out of , if he's even able to. That is not something to be laughed off or taken lightly.

 

Basically, somebody needs to tell him: "Yeah, your not an old fogey yet, but you need to step up and act like an ADULT LEADER...not an ADULT PAL!"

 

 

[Crew21_Adv]

Cleto,

 

Greetings!

 

What would be an appropriate action for this scenario?

 

It would warrant further investigation. If the findings exceed YP definitions, that would be dismissal. If they findings are just disappointing discussions and behavior that would be the determination of the COR.

 

I do not know the exact details of your recent events, and your question/scenario is very vague.

 

Here are my thoughts from a similar scenario...

 

In my troop. We ocassionally have young adults join our unit. They participate once a month, maybe once every two months. Showing up to assist with some various events. These young adults are usually Eagle Scouts, wanting to "pay back" just a little.

 

We had one specific young adult on the committee a few years ago. A young 25'ish Eagle. Fairly good guy, but at this time in his life, not the best role model. He would attend about every other meeting. He was recently divorced from a short marriage, and excessive alcohol was the entertainment after his work day. For a short period of time, he was our Eagle Scout Advisor/Counselor. On occasion he would talk to the older Life Scouts about their Eagle Scout Projects.

 

Although we (the committee and him) would pretty much agree with his opinion of an Eagle Scout Project, his dialogue with the Life Scout was pretty abrasively blunt. The Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster would say to any of the Life Scouts "Is there really a benefactor?", "Do you really think this is leaving a legacy?", "Are you really demonstrating leadership here?", and "let's make sure this is legal first" One of our Scouts wanted to donate IPODs to a local VA hospital, but wanted to illegally download the music. (Whoa wait a second, good idea, wrong procedures!) But this Young Adult Eagle Advisor would directly say "Dude, This sucks!" "You would be laughing stock if you did this project!". It would take months for the Life Scouts to return with a modified project submission.

 

Well maybe we agreed with him, but the older adult leaders would take a more tactful approach.

 

Also, other adult leaders found out this young adult leader was glamorizing alcohol. We know most of these Life Scouts have seen their parents have a beer, wine or cocktail. In school and the community, they learn the dangers of excessive alcohol and/or drugs. But our young adult Eagle Advisor would say "Dude, I got so wasted last weekend". Then he would follow up with "It was soooo much fun though".

 

Okay now our older Life Scouts equated excessive alcohol consumption to more fun.

 

Our young adult Eagle Scout Advisor never tried to keep his discussions a secret or never stated to the Life Scouts "this is just between you and me".

 

Did our young adult on the troop committee violate youth protection, sexual abuse, verbal abuse or emotion abuse. No. The committee did not believe so. Did he discuss things that disappointed parents. Yes. We were very disappointed with him.

 

You asked. "What would be an appropriate action for this scenario?"

 

Here is the action my troop took for a similar scenario.

 

The Committee discussed what we knew. The Committee decided, he was not a pedophile or abuser, but he was misdirected and not the best role model. The Committee decided to remove him from Eagle Scout Advisor and keep him as a Committee Member (at large). The Committee asked that he become aware and educated of his improper interactions and the committees desired actions.

 

Our action, the committee delegated a subcommittee to discuss a resolution with him. Two ASMs and another Committee member. We told him, as adults we all have had alcohol. We all have been to social parties. But that we now have to be responsible and separate the glamor of dangerous activities from our Scouts. We expressed that we (the subcommittee) were all 25 once. But we don't want our sons to equate excessive alcohol to fun. We also discussed the really odd Eagle projects we've heard, and how we advise Life Scouts to make sure there is a benefactor and there really is a service being provided.

 

He accepted the admonishment. He apologized for the misdirected topics. And continued to participate as a general committee member (w/o direct interaction with any youth), till he moved away from our community.

 

It was a difficult committee discussion. It was a difficult counseling session. But our unit is much better for the actions that we took.

 

Hopefully, your committee can determine what was said, what was improper and how the committee feels about the actual scenario, and then decide the appropriate action for your young adult leader.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

[Twocubdad]

Sounds to me as he's trying to ingratiate himself with the boys at the expense of others. At minimum a pretty immature way to handle things.

 

The Scoutmaster, who, as an ASM, he works for, needs to have a conversation about the proper bearing of an adult leader and, possibly point out some of the real downsides keeping "secrets" with the boys may pose.

 

In the other direction, all the adults should help make this fellow feel welcome on the "dark side." Make sure he's not constantly lumped in with the boys. Give him adult responsibilities, not necessarily in direct contact with the Scouts. Give him his own coffee mug and make sure he knows how to use it.

[Eagledad]

He is just acting in mature. It's common and someone he respects needs to talk with him before someone does get offened. I had 23 year old ASM who cussed around the boys when I wasn't around. He was just trying to be cool and we had a talk about, but it was a lawyer dad (eagle scout too) who came in a troop meeting with paperwork already filled out to sue the troop that got the 23 year old's attention. He acted like an adult around the boys after that.

 

Barry

[ScoutNut]

Cleto, all any of us here have to go by is the rather short, incomplete, story you posted. We are left to try to figure out the back story in our imaginations. NOWHERE in your original post did you say that Scouts were complaining about this ASM - NOWHERE.

 

So this ASM told a PARENT that he was holding secret discussions with the scouts. Not sure why you seem to feel this is worse than if he had told a Troop leader. However, I am curious about how this parent reacted. It does not seem that the parent dressed this ASM down in any way. More back story we have to piece together blindly. To me it says that there is a LOT of back story here that we know nothing about.

 

Also not sure why you (big boy or not) are getting these e-mails from the Scouts, and their families, and not the SM. However, if Scouts are complaining, this should have been brought to the attention of the SM, and/or the CC, as soon as you found out. I would recommend that you do that IMMEDIATELY.

 

[shortridge]

Well, my W.A.G. is that this fellow is trying to foment a rebellion or insurrection among the Scouts and make himself the new SM. That's about as good a scenario as any, given the amount of information we have to work with.

 

You don't say if this guy is an ASM or committee member. If the former, the SM needs to do a sit-down with him and inform him that his conduct is unacceptable. You don't go around polling Scouts about what leaders they dislike, or informing them that you dislike the other leaders. That's simply unprofessional. If he wants to continue to serve as an ASM, he must be at the SM's back and not try to play petty political games.

 

If the latter, the CC needs to have the same conversation.

[evmori]

He informed the scouts to "keep it a secret." Isn't this a violation? I've been trained through three or more different youth protection programs and they mention the secrecy as a red flag.

 

No it isn't a violation. Keep what a secret?

[Eamonn]

Seems to me that this fellow (I think 23 is not that young!) very well might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer.

But...

I have to say that trying to make everything a YP issue ain't that clever either.

Best thing for everyone is to find the right time and place, sit down and have a chat. Go over what the expectations of a ASM are, allow him to get whatever it is that is on his chest. Work on fixing whatever is not right.

And move on to the task at hand.

Ea.

[Eagle92]

Don't like the fact that this old fogey ( 18+ in a troop=old fogey; 21+=old fogey in Venturing and OA) is going behind the leadership's back is a concern. Even if he does think the troop it on the wrong footing, he needs to address his concerns directly and respectfully.

 

While I do not like having YP issues arise form every little thing, this post does say something: you must be mindful of everything you do. Heck when I was working for supply, I was told by the boss that I was no longer allowed to put on the neckerchiefs for the new scouts b/c someone at another store put one on a new cub in the middle of the store, in the middle of roundup season, and mom screamed inappropriate touching and the guy lost his job. Don't know if he was also thrown out of Scoutin as well