Martinez and the Magicians Horse

[Scoutfish]

Good Call Gern!

 

I do believe you are right: A scout who tries his best to make an attempt to do a duty to a god, but finds out he can't..after an honest effort to try- Meets the rrequirements.

 

I see it the same as making an honest attempt to try and enter a cave by a claustrophobic person: They may spend hours prepping, thinking and analyzing it, they may try to educate their fears, they may just want to do it, but after hours of trying....still can't.

 

But they did try.

 

They did do their BEST to do it.

[skeptic]

Our Methodist CO's minister spoke today about "pick and choose" faithful. What she said, while referring to Christians specifically, could likely be related to individuals in most religious groups. Her sermon started with a quote; "I would like $3 worth of God, please". You can imagine the following context; basically pointing out that "true faith" does not choose just what is easy and comfortable.

 

The other thing she said, which I found unusual, was; "the scriptures do not chastise 'intellectual atheists'; but they do take part time believers to task" (or something close to these words).

 

Another point of cogitation.

[studentscout]

Pick and choose. Interesting.

NJCubscouter writes, "...you promise to do your duty to "God." Do you find a contradiction between that and your beliefs?"

I guess we could quibble over the term, 'belief', but I would end up admitting that everything I believe is open to change if I see a good reason to discard one 'belief' for another. In my view, these things are merely ideas that seem to work for now. If someone can show me a better idea I'll gladly accept that gift.

 

But to answer your question, well, I don't have a good answer for you. Yes, sometimes if I'm in a bad mood, it bothers me, mostly because of the implied message that BSA has embedded in its policies. But most of the time, if I substitute the thing I hold in greatest reverence for the word, "God", then it removes the contradiction for me and becomes something I can reconcile honestly. This means substituting the phrase, "duty to seek truth" for the phrase, "duty to God". Of course truth is something we're never quite certain about but it is the ultimate goal of the search, right? I merely employ rational tools where others resort to the supernatural. So that's about the best I can do without thinking about it a lot more than I'd like to just now. I hope you understand.

 

GernBlansten and Scoutfish, that's an interesting way to think about the oath but it isn't how I thought about it (at least not until you made the suggestion). I guess it could apply to others though.(This message has been edited by studentscout)

[evmori]

Single me out all you want NJ. I really don't care. And as far as being contradictory, so?

 

And as far as me be ineducable, that is nothing more than Merlyn's opinion. I can learn just fine. I just don't ascribe to Merlyn's view. To me, that is a difference of an opinion, not ineducable.

 

And the only reason Merlyn says I am ineducable is because I don't agree with him! Sorry Merlyn.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No Ed, there are quite a few instances where you have demonstrated that you can't learn. For one example, you have complained that the ACLU had sued to remove a manger scene but not to remove a menorah; I pointed out that the ACLU sued to have both removed, but the courts only ruled to remove the manger. Yet you have made the same complaint even after being told this.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Ed, I did not say anything about you being "ineducable." I try to stay away from name-calling and I usually succeed.

 

What I did say is that your need to be on the other side of Merlyn on every issue sometimes blinds you to the facts, and what is correct and incorrect. In this case, Merlyn is correct.

[WAKWIB]

studentscout:

 

For the record, I just wanted to thank you for bringing your perspective and experience to this topic. You have put down for us your first-hand opinion of scouting and atheism in a way that can help us understand, rather than just trying to get in the last word or insult other posters. I think that you have come to appreciate the fact that scouting is way more than just a bunch of tongue-wagging over a couple of hot-button topics.

 

When it comes to this topic of God, at this point in time you and I would be at polar opposites in the discussion. But I respect your point, chiefly because it's given in an honest and respectful way.

I've personally received way more from your couple of posts than from the other 9 pages of playground squabble.

 

Thanks again, and press on in your search for truth.

[OldGreyEagle]

WingNut, I need to answer you.

 

No, I never did receive any mail from other Moderators and by the looks of things plenty of people besides Merlyn and Ed have things to say so the discussion continues

[evmori]

I know you don't stoop to name calling NJ. I was responding to you post

 

I guess I never responded to the original post in this thread by Beavah, and I don't want it to seem like I am singling out Ed.

 

And yeah there are times I let my emotions get the best of me especially when someone stoops to name calling. I've never been a fan of "whoever yells the loudest wins" mentality Merlyn seems to have.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I don't have such a policy Ed, that's why I post links, and actually quote what people write instead of making vague accusations.

[evmori]

I never said you had such a policy Merlyn.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

You just wrote:

"whoever yells the loudest wins" mentality Merlyn seems to have

and I denied it, Ed.

[evmori]

Mentality ≠ policy.

[NJCubScouter]

Good grief. Both of you.

[evmori]

Thanks Charlie Brown.