Martinez and the Magicians Horse

[sherminator505]

By "reasonable", do you mean "I'm right and you're wrong and if you annoy me sufficiently I'll call you a moron" reasonable or "if you catch me in a whopper I'll simply throw out some definition or another and then put you on auto-ignore" reasonable?(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Case in point.

[sherminator505]

How so? You now seem to be holding out for a "reasonable" conversation, when you have amply demonstrated in this thread that "reasonable" is not something you're interested in. You're using that device now as an excuse not to face confrontation.

 

If you were a Scouter, right about now I would ask you how "a Scout is Brave" translates into your present tactics. But you're not a Scouter, so what's the point, right?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No, you misunderstand. YOU are obviously not interested in a reasonable conversation. Like I said, case in point.

[sherminator505]

No, I think I understand perfectly.

[evmori]

It's like spitting into the wind, sherm. You can spit all day and only you will get wet!

[moosetracker]

Against my better judgement, I will throw something in for the piranha to nibble at..

 

I would like to know seriously is there anything that keeps a athiest from JOINING the BSA? I know there is things that will keep him from advancing.. But, if you are honest about being an athiest will someone tell you, you can't join, because of rule such & such. Or can you join go on campouts, go to all the events.. But just not advance..

 

Sort of like the non-swimmer who can still join the swimming team.

 

Now there is a rule barring homosexual adults from joining, but not youth.. Am I correct?

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

moosetracker, the BSA says that atheists (both youth and adult) can't join. That's why they lost public schools as chartering organizations.

[evmori]

So they are chartered by the PTA's of those public schools and can still meet at the school. Big whoop!(This message has been edited by evmori)

[moosetracker]

Your right, I knew such a clause was in the Adult leader reading. But I guess they just soft shoe it with the scout in them signing they have read the Scout oath and promise to live by it, before they even sign up..

 

Knew they couldn't advance even to cub scout or Boy scout badge without saying the oath..

[SSScout]

We ASK the Scout to live by the Scout Promise and Law. If they have a well developed conscience (and part of what we Scoutleaders do or should do, is help with that developement), the conflict of saying the promise versus what they actually feel/believe would lead the athiest Scout to resign or drop out. 99% of all Scouts are in it for the adventure, camping, canoeing, etc. not directly for the moral ethical education. That part sneaks up on them.

I think some boys do leave Scouting from that conflict and their desire to be "Trustworthy" and live a non-hipocritical life. We may not know the true numbers, and they might not all be known to us.

In the rare case when a Scout is asked directly (as ,perhaps, in an Eagle BoR) about his faith/religion, this may serve as a catalyst to define what has been mulling around in his head and heart for a long time. I think that in the SM Minute, the campfire "bull" sessions, the "Scout's Own", grace at meals, the honest, sincere and open expressions of belief and appreciation by Scout Leaders, all do more to encourage a Scout's own faith than anything else. Not specific in your face challenges, but general nudges and reminders.

Should we feel we have failed when that boy leaves Scouting? I don't think so, because (I hope) we have had some purchase in at least getting the boy to THINK about such things.

In my dealings with the Muslim units I Commission, I have been told that their respect for me comes not from my Scout knowledge (which they appreciate) but more for my sincere faith and ability to respect their faith, however different it is from mine.

Anyone can join. Not everyone can stay. I had a mom help at a CSDC and , as required, registered as a Scout volunteer. Her boy and she had a good time. Came next year, we asked her again to help. She said her boy was in Cubs for the program, and she would let him make his own decision about God when he wanted to, but after reading the "statement of faith" on the registration forem, she could not sign it again. But the boy came to camp, without her.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It simply isn't true that "anyone can join." Atheists can't join. I also disagree with your implication that atheists haven't thought about it (which appears to be the usual theist assumption that anyone who does think about it, would suddenly decide that invisible superbeings really exist, for some reason).

[evmori]

You are correct Merlyn, atheists can't join. But why would an atheist want to join the BSA?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

How, Ed?

[evmori]

How? Join to become a registered member.