What Would it Take to Change your mind on ...

[Beavah]

B, I'll forgive you and it's not simplistic. If you meant straw man and were just being funny, well, whatever.

 

Shucks, I thought it was funny. Though not as funny as packsaddle's nose ring.

 

I just can't figure out how yeh can feel dividing all of Christendom into "two camps" is anything but simplistic. Yeh might have to give it another go explaining that to me.

 

Current "progessive/permissive" Christian thought goes at least as far back as Erasmus'(a contemporary in the late 1400's of Luther and Calvin) espousal of free will. Not to mention Kant, Hume, and Locke (The Enlightenment) in the 1700's. You know better.

 

Yah,... Huh?

 

I think your mind made about a dozen logical steps there that yeh neglected to type out for da rest of us to follow. Otherwise it just seems like something that Folly would Praise, eh?

 

I don't think Erasmus took a position in favor of homosexual practice, or any of those other fellows either.

 

I don't reckon Erasmus began discussion of free will, eh? Rather, he was defending the millenial Judeo-Christian teaching on free will against da challenges raised by determinists like Luther and Calvin.

 

Yah, and I can't figure da whole blacks-and-baptism thing, eh? Seems like da Christians from the early Patriarchies to da Orthodox and Catholics and on have always followed da gospel's admonishment to "go, make disciples of all nations, and baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Perhaps a few snooty national churches or whatnot along da way may have done something different, but da notion of general baptism hardly got its start in 1700. And as to women, da ancient Jewish law afforded women more property rights than da early laws in the United States.

 

So I'm afraid yeh just lost me in all that, eh? Care to try again?

 

Beavah

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[markrvp]

This thread is kind of like watching an Episode of American Chopper... people arguing due to boredom and/or ego.

[acco40]

Where else can one learn about pigs, wives, husbands, bible (or Bible) study all in the same thread.

 

markrvp - homosexual couples produce babies all the time. A lesbian hooks up with a gay man, they both grit their teeth, do the deed, shake hands and voil - a baby emerges nine months later.

 

Bonus: those who have a myriad of posts in the thread return and roll their proverbial eyes that "this thread is still going on."

[evmori]

That was my opinion OGE.

 

Well Vicki, since you have divinity degree, who did write Ephesians? Or maybe a better question is who is thought to have written Ephesians? And if it isn't Paul, why does the 1st verse read "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God ......"(NIV)?

[OldGreyEagle]

The Bible is God's word written by the divinely inspired. What is more important, the identity of the person who wrote the words or the words themselves?

 

BTW, is not everything we write our opinions?

[skeptic]

OGE; That is a matter of opinion.

[Vicki]

First, B, you're right - it was obviously a vain effort on my part to try to condense several hundred years (or more) of theological history and discourse into a few paragraphs.

 

Ed, assuming that your question is serious, ancient authors frequently wrote under the name of an author they were trying to emulate. Debate goes back and forth as to whether it was in honor of that author or if it was just plain dishonest (the dishonesty of it being, perhaps, a modern concept). So we don't know the name of the author. All we know is that from the original Greek used, the way it was written, and the content, it doesn't sound like any of the letters we know Paul wrote and it doesn't seem to have been written at the same time (Romans and 1Corinthians, as examples).

 

Hey, Pack, hi back!

 

I'm headed out for some pie at this point - warm blackberry with vanilla ice cream.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[packsaddle]

blackberry with vanilla....yummmmmmmmm!

 

Edited to add: Acco, they don't BOTH have to be gay (but I understand you were making a point). Moreover, the gay female doesn't really HAVE to do the deed if artificial insemination is available. As for the actual mechanics, it's somewhere soon after this point that my students start indicating that I have given way more information than they wanted to hear...(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[NJCubScouter]

And then there are people who don't believe God had anything to do with the Bible (or one or more testaments), and that it was just written by people, like any other book.

[Beavah]

 

And then there are people who don't believe God had anything to do with the Bible (or one or more testaments), and that it was just written by people, like any other book.

 

In which case you're still left with da issue that it was and is by far da best selling, most influential book in human history. So still da one book that any honestly well read and thoughtful human should have read and thought about in detail, read commentaries on, and considered as potentially useful even if it seemed to disagree with their own notions.

 

Which, in turn, would lead 'em back to considering more seriously d possibility of God.

 

Beavah

 

[scoutingagain]

Just so all can stay up with current events.

 

SA

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100826/pl_yblog_upshot/former-bush-campaign-manager-flips-on-gay-marriage

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Which, in turn, would lead 'em back to considering more seriously d possibility of God.

 

I'm not talking about belief in God. I'm talking about a belief that the Bible is the word of God, or inspired by God, or is otherwise something other than a book written by people. These are not the same thing.

 

There is a also a big difference between a book being influential, useful, etc. and it being the Word of God.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Yes, SA, I read about that earlier. Former chairman of the Republican National Committee and Bush-Cheney campaign manager, now openly gay and supporting gay marriage. Very interesting.

[OldGreyEagle]

"blackberry with vanilla....yummmmmmmmm!"

 

 

I would think if vanilla got on your blackberry, you would not be saying Yummmmmmmmm?

[evmori]

Pie time!