Cool Christianity and Cool Scouting

[Stosh]

Once Scouting began to be anti-Scouting, i.e. anti-military, anti-camping, management instead of leadership, it was remarkable how quickly the membership numbers declined and continued to decline. One would think that after 35+ years they would catch on to the trend and notice this problem. Alas, it hasn't yet happened.

 

However, a few of the old skeletons in the BSA closet continue the tradition and provide a pretty good program for the boys despite the lack of support.

 

Maybe this is why the scouts under the old emphasis tend to be a bit more aggressive in their leadership.

 

My last two Eagle scouts:

 

1) As an adult, he continues to pursue the continuation of his Eagle project, going to meetings of various groups drumming up support for the expansion of his initial work. He is served as 3rd ASM at Jambo and is currently an ASM pursuing WB. The only thing in his foreseeable future that is going to disrupt this trend is his pursuit of acceptance into the Air Force Academy and active duty.

 

2) A scout that for years promoted the idea that all he wanted to get his Eagle at 14-15 and quit. He currently is 16 years old and a JASM still very active in the troop.

 

Surely some of the old skeletons have something to offer. While the numbers may be down, I'm finding that those that do enter into Scouting, survive the Webelos/BSA transition and parental lack of support, do well, they are the cream of the crop in today's society of young men.

 

Stosh

[sherminator505]

I've been referencing 1972 a lot in this thread, because this is a point of convergence in this whole conversation. 1972 marked the all-time high water mark for BSA membership. That same year, the BSA introduced the "Improved Scouting Program," and changed Wood Badge to conform to White Stag to support the change.

 

Histories of the BSA record that the "Improved Scouting Program" lasted only lasted a few years, but how true is that statement? The Handbook was changed in 1979, but the advancement requirements remained with only minor changes (most notably the restoration of Camping). The restoration of the old requirements took place in 1989, but this was followed by the issuance of a new, very much watered-down handbook. And as for Wood Badge, it was never corrected, and instead we got this generalized Wood Badge for the 21st Century course.

 

So from where I stand, the "experiment" continues, we still haven't reached our 1972 strength again, and there are no signs that National will ever recognize these trends for what they are, much less the causes.

[NJCubScouter]

Sherm, I think the numbers of youth joining (and staying in) Scouting have been much more affected by demographics, the vastly increased availability of other activities, perhaps somewhat by controversies over membership policies, and other factors, rather than by the content of the handbook or of adult training courses.

[Beavah]

Yah, NJ, I think that may apply to the slow shrinkage the last 10 years, eh? But I don't think yeh can claim that demographics or social issues resulted in the precipitous decline in da 1970s, particularly since by 1972 we had moved through most of da social upheaval of the 60s.

 

I think boys like adventure and challenge. They're wired for it. When we dilute the challenge, or water down the adventure, we lose their interest.

 

B

[Kudu]

Yeah, maybe we should check the 1973 television lineup to figure out which program lured those three million Boy Scouts away (you know, after we just happened to trade Scoutcraft Adventure for fake leadership)

 

The demographics myth is easy enough to disprove.

 

If you want to understand how "cool" Scoutcraft Adventure is, simply use my sixth-grade recruiting presentation as written:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

Whatever the percentage of Total Available Youth (TAR) in the BSA now, if you offer Scoutcraft Adventure you will recruit about 28% of sixth grade boys.

 

That is 28% in addition to whatever we have been able to recruit with all the resources of the BSA millionaires and volunteers, because my presentation is given after all the Webelos have already crossed over.

 

So, if BSA TAR is 5%, then Scoutcraft Adventure is almost six times more "cool" than Wood Badge for Wolf Den Leaders

 

About 71% of the sixth-grade audience will (in front of their peers) sign a list asking you to call their parents, so the potential TAR is 71% above current BSA membership.

 

In other words, 71% of sixth-grade boys think Scouting is "cool" if you present it as the 1916 Scoutcraft Adventure mandated by our Congressional Charter.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[NJCubScouter]

But I don't think yeh can claim that demographics or social issues resulted in the precipitous decline in da 1970s, particularly since by 1972 we had moved through most of da social upheaval of the 60s.

 

I'm not sure I can't claim that, or at least part of that. But before I claim anything, does anyone know where I can find year-by-year membership statistics for the BSA, broken down by program? I have seen these statistics on the web before, but I couldn't find them when I looked for them just now. I did find the history of births in the U.S. though, and I'd like to match them up and see what happens.

 

I think boys like adventure and challenge. They're wired for it. When we dilute the challenge, or water down the adventure, we lose their interest.

 

But can someone prove to me that the challenge has been diluted, or the adventure watered down? And I'm talking on the actual troop level. I don't mean what's written or not written in the handbook, or taught or not taught in Wood Badge or other training courses. I mean what kids actually do. I was a Boy Scout before 1972, and I am a Scouter now, and I honestly don't see the diluting or watering down in terms of what Scouts actually do in Scouting. Maybe I am missing something, but I just don't see it. What I do see is that adults usually tend to see the conditions facing their children as being less challenging than "when I was a boy." You know, these kids today get to ride the bus to school, but when I was a boy, we had to walk five miles to school, in the snow, uphill, both ways! (Copyright Bill Cosby, and of course that was my parents' generation, picking on my generation, just as we tend to do to our children's generation.)

[sherminator505]

NJCubScouter,

 

I can appreciate what you're saying as far as what you're observing at the unit level, and what you're saying is perfectly true in units such as yours where you know what real Scouting is like and how to deliver it. For that, I applaud you.

 

However, I suspect that you haven't had a whole lot of exposure to BSA training, and probably haven't served on many training staffs. If you did, you'd probably have more appreciation for what some of us are saying in this and other threads. You'll find that as you move along in Scouting and receive more training that the training does become less relevant.

 

Kudu views this as an embracing of management theory in lieu of real leadership. I don't see this as the case, as a proper application of management theory would lead the BSA to offer more relevant training, not less relevant training. Rather, I see it as intellectual laziness, where the developers of training only have to work on one syllabus instead of two or three. It also reveals a certain gulf between those in the corporate BSA and those of us in the field.

 

I think that it would behoove the BSA to terminate this "experiment" that has been going on almost as long as I've been alive and make Scouting more like the program that Green Bar Bill wrote about and fostered, that Norman Rockwell painted, and that millions of boys gravitated to naturally!

[NJCubScouter]

Ok, I dug out my father's handbook collection (I guess I'll always call it that, though technically it is now my handbook collection.) As has been stated previously, the Eighth Edition, First Printing (June 1972) does not have Camping skill award required for any rank. The only required skill award is Citizenship, for Tenderfoot. We know from Brent that the Second Printing (1973) also does not have Camping as a required skill award. The next one I have is the Fifth Printing (December 1977). In that book, Hiking and First Aid skill awards have been added as required for Second Class, and Camping and Cooking skill awards for First Class. Interestingly, on the inside of the front cover is box saying "This handbook includes the revised progress award requirements that became mandatory January 1, 1978." Which prompted me to look and see if Camping was on the Eagle-required list in this printing, and it is. So why Brent has a sheet that seems to add Camping to the Eagle required list effective February 8, 1979, when I have a book that seems to add it back effective January 1, 1978, is kind of a mystery.

 

But what I think we've established here is that the removal of camping as a rank requirement lasted for no more than six years, and possibly less. Anybody have the Eighth Edition, Third or Fourth Printing?

[sherminator505]

Frankly, I am not so concerned about how long that omission lasted as what it represented.

[NJCubScouter]

Sherm, I believe it represented a mistake that had virtually no real consequences, though I suspect you would disagree with the last part.

 

Specifically on the issue of Camping merit badge, it would be an interesting exercise to take the current T-2-1 camping requirements, add them up into a list of what the Scout must do by the time of making First Class, and then see what more has to be done for the Camping MB. From my vague recollection of the requirements when my son was passing them, there may be some additional nights of camping required, but probably not much more than that.

[Mr. Boyce]

For me, the interesting thing is the notion that scouting is being reinvented by the nonscouts.

 

I mean by this, the new interest in "no child left indoors" and the enthusiasm this has received among teachers.

 

Outdoor Education is a new, big thing. A lot of pedagogical interest in developing the subject . . . which is absolute nuts because the BSA is already the pro in this area.

 

The threat, though, to scouting is that "low-impact" outdoor activities ("get them done in time for the bus home") suffice with the kids, and the deeper, more intense BSA experience loses out. Why join the BSA when the school's gone on a few 2-mile "hikes" in the local park?

[NJCubScouter]

Well Brent, I can think of one reason why those involved with "outdoor education" (especially public-school connected outdoor education) would not be getting involved with the BSA, but you're probably not going to like it.

[Eagle92]

Ok I watched the teaser at this link about inner city kids and camp.

http://www.harlemscouts.org/

 

from my experiences as a staffer working a camp geared strictly to at risk youth and having sheriffs' deputies from different parishes attend,kids want excitement and adventure in the outdoors. We had out problems, we sent kids home, heck we sent an entire contingent home, but overall the kids want it.

 

let me tell you one story about how bad one kid wanted to be in the outdoors. His group was the one sent home. problem was he was the only good one in the group, actually doing things he was suppose to and helping out the staff. He was upset that he was getting sent home for no fault of his own, and some of our younger staff members decided to "hide him in plain site" and have him work in scoutcraft. Long story short we wound up having to drive him home after the group leaders left without him, talk to his dad who was really angry about him being sent home that it wasn't his fault and that the staff wants him to join them next year. needless to say dad was flabergasted, especially since the we gave him registration forms, info on the summer camp Explorer post, and a staff application for camp.

[Mr. Boyce]

I think the real threat of "outdoor education" is the substitution of manicured grassy lawns replacing the real woods. . . and people believing the outdoors is just like the city park. Zero roughing it.

[Horizon]

NJCubScouter:

 

Trail to First Class:

 

Tenderfoot Rank Requirement 2: Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

 

Second Class Requirement 2a: Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight.

 

First Class Requirement 3: Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight.

 

TOTAL: 3 nights camping minimum to earn First Class.

 

Camping MB: Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.

 

TOTAL: 20 nights camping, 17 nights in addition to those necessary for a Scout to earn the rank of First Class.

 

The committed Scouts in my Troop tend to earn Camping merit badge their second year at summer camp, having already easily camped 20 nights by then.