Cool Christianity and Cool Scouting

[evmori]

Well, on the BSA site and every other site, Camping is still listed as a required MB and the camping skills are still in place in the 12th edition of the handbook.

[Bando]

evmori, VigilEagle, the point is not that Camping is an Eagle-required merit badge today, but rather that for a period of time in the 1970's, it was removed from the list. An omission that was later corrected. So, yes, at a point in the BSA's history, you could theoretically have earned Eagle without going camping. Whether that ever actually happened is debatable.

[NJCubScouter]

There seems to be some misunderstanding about this issue with the camping requirements. Sherm and Bando are talking about the 1970's, not today, and they are correct. In 1972 Camping MB was removed from the Eagle-required list. I have seen different dates for when it was put back (1978, 79 or 80.) (Cooking MB was also taken off the list in 1972 and though there have been discussions about putting it back on, it still hasn't been. I still have my silver-bordered Cooking and Camping MB's, though I didn't make Eagle.) Also in 1972, the requirements for T-2-1 were rearranged so that a certain number of Skill Awards were required for each rank. One of the Skill Awards was Camping, and as far as I know it was never specifically required for any rank. So, for about six to eight years, it was theoretically possible to make Eagle without going camping. Since it is my understanding that Skill Awards were not replaced by a more "traditional" requirements structure (such as exists today) until 1989, it seems that for about 17 years, it was theoretically possible to go from Scout to Life (but not Eagle) without going camping. I just doubt that many (if any) Scouts actually did this.

[Eagle92]

Need to double check my BSHB, but I think Camping SA became a requirement in the 2-1 range in 79 or therabouts. I know not at the T level as that was Citizenship and another SA.

[sherminator505]

Ed,

 

As I mentioned in my previous two posts, camping was indeed restored to the camping requirements. But it was dropped for a time, and it was not an error. It was, however, a huge mistake.

 

Sherm(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Vicki]

"Personally, a preacher with spiked colored hair, earrings and tattoos drinking a Starbucks is a turn off for me. For others, that kind of preacher draws them where a more traditional guys doesn't. "

 

And someday, posters will write "...where a more traditional person doesn't."

 

I know Pack's out there somewhere.

 

In terms of the subject, I do scouting because it's fun - ideals and such matter, but mainly cuz it's fun. As I tell my two sons, after you hit somewhere around 25, you've pretty much transcended cool.

 

Vicki

 

[NJCubScouter]

Thanks for correcting the point about Camping becoming a "required Skill Award", Eagle92. I was not involved in Scouting in 1979. It makes sense that at the same time the BSA restored Camping MB to the Eagle-required list, it made the Camping Skill Award required for one of the lower ranks. I'm glad they did that. I guess I could have asked my younger brother, most of his time as a Scout was during the no-camping-required era, and he made Eagle in the early 80's. And I know for sure that he went camping.

[NJCubScouter]

I did some Google searching and found two sites that say Camping Skill Award was required for First Class, but they don't say when that requirement took effect. My recollection is that when the 1972 handbook came out, that requirement was not in there. I think I have a couple of different printings (including the first) of the 1972 handbook at home and I will check it out tonight.

[Eagle92]

In ref to when Camping SA became required. Again I want to check my BSHB from that time, but if that is indeed the case, then I would guess in 1979, when GBB's handbook came out, which brought back the "OUTING in ScOUTING" (caps in original)

[NJCubScouter]

Eagle92, as I have stated in the past, having been a Scout at the time of the 1972 changes, I don't think the "outing" was ever really taken out of "Scouting" -- especially from the viewpoint of actual Scouts and unit-level Scouters. And I think I can speak to more than just my own troop because I participated in camporees, summer camps, a couple of district-wide SPL meetings and was part of a Philmont contingent during that same period. I also attended some roundtables as an 18-year-old ASM. The program focus of Scouting was always on the outdoors. Despite what the conventional wisdom may be today, I just don't think Scouting as actually experienced "on the ground" actually became less outdoor-oriented. What National's intention was, I don't know. I think it was actually to provide a wider range of options, rather than removing the outdoor elements from the program.

[BrentAllen]

I still have my BSHB from my youth. Eighth edition, Second printing. February, 1973.

 

Camping MB was NOT required for Eagle. Camping Skill Award was not required for any rank.

 

I also have the "New Scout Advancement Requirements" supplement sheet that shows the changes that would take effect on February 8, 1979. Camping was added to the list of Eagle required merit badges. The number of MBs required for Eagle dropped from 24 to 21. First Aid MB was added as a requirement for First Class (Citizenship in the Community was no longer required for First Class).

There were additional requirements added to the Camping Skill Award, but it was not required for any rank.

 

So, yes, for about 7 years Scouts could earn Eagle without going camping.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[qwazse]

Camping in Wilderness = Cool

Organ at Full Stops = Cool

Scouts Logging Video of Jambo = Cool

Jazz in Worship = Cool

 

Carping about how other people do stuff = Uncool

[sherminator505]

"Despite what the conventional wisdom may be today, I just don't think Scouting as actually experienced "on the ground" actually became less outdoor-oriented."

 

At the ground level, you are correct. The problem is, to one extent or another, there have been these "accomodations" to those who don't care for outdoor aspects of traditional Scouting, and it has affected how National supports what we are trying to accomplish down here. The training syllibi and literature have become more generalized and less outdoor-oriented, and I believe that these trends have done much more harm than good.

[NJCubScouter]

Sherm, just to make clear, I have been responding mainly to your comments about what happened in the 70s. As to your comments about more recent events, I will have to let others address those. You refer to training, and I can't really respond as the positions I have been trained for are Cub Scout Den Leader, Cubmaster and Boy Scout Troop Committee (not counting some Fast Starts for other things.) None of these really involve the Boy Scout outdoor program except to tell you (in the case of Troop Committee challenge) that there needs to be a committee member in charge of arrangements for camping and other activities. I did take "This is Scouting" which does deal with the outdoor program fleetingly (as with everything else).

 

So all I can tell you is that my troop does a lot of camping and some high adventure, the troops around us do a lot of camping and more high adventure, our affiliated crew does a lot of high adventure, and for the leaders in this units, the outdoor program is still the focus as the vehicle for delivering the aims of the program. If National is not trying to help in this effort, this seems to go unnoticed on the local level, at least where I am.

[Kudu]

The point of the 1970s experience was that Scoutcraft was not "cool" with the potential urban marketshare, so we used the terms "Leadership and Character" to express our open hostility to Scoutcraft.

 

The point of our Chief Scout Executive's goal for 2010 is that Scoutcraft is not "cool" with the potential Hispanic marketshare, so again we use the terms "Leadership and Character" to express our open hostility to Scoutcraft.

 

The idea that Green Bar Bill put the "outing" back in "Scouting" is simply not true.

 

The 1972 invention of Leadership Development took the "patrolling" out of his "Patrol" Method.

 

When was the last time one of your Patrols went out on patrol...

 

...without adult helicopters?

 

Before 1972, taking your Patrol out on Patrol was the "outing" in "Scouting."

 

Green Bar Bill called the process "Patrol Leader Training."

 

Patrol Leader Training was never restored, in fact the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster-specific training never even mentions a Patrol Leader.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu