Interesting article on homosexuality

[DanKroh]

Yes, as Beavah said, you can find a similar agenda for an special-interest group, including many of the big churches. And you can bet your last dollar that the anti-gay right groups have extensive agendas and media manipulation plans.

 

I'm speaking of the "agenda" of the average gay person, who is just trying to go about living their lives without getting beaten up or killed, losing their job, home, or children, or having their relationship with their partner discounted at every turn. They don't CARE what the agenda of some activist group might be, they just want to be treated with respect and equality, as human beings.

 

I truly do not comprehend why some people consider that "unreasonable" or a bad thing.

[Mr. Boyce]

Dan I appreciate what you're saying. I'm just trying to learn more here. The fact that there's an International Mr. Leather competition, and some other such bizarre things, apparently on a broader scale than what some may take to be comparable heterosexual sexual excess, makes me believe homosexuality is a kind of personality disorder of a serious sort. The extreme behavior, risk taking, many multiple partners, narcissism, etc., suggests this, and I think these things make homosexual behavior easy to criticize. I think heterosexuals quickly sense that homosexuals are much more willing to experiment with sex than they are.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I think Mr. Boyce has himself confused with "all heterosexuals." If you can't find heterosexuals willing to experiment with sex, you just aren't looking.

[Beavah]

Yah, Mr. Boyce, I reckon we do have to be honest in admitting there's an awful lot of deviant and bizarre heterosexual behavior out there. Certainly a lot more by volume than da homoerotic stuff, just because the customer base is so much larger. Whether there's more by percentage is da kind of question I reckon there's no way to find an answer to.

 

B

[Eagledad]

>>Yah, Mr. Boyce, I reckon we do have to be honest in admitting there's an awful lot of deviant and bizarre heterosexual behavior out there.

[Scoutfish]

I am not gay. Never had a "gay" thought that I am aware of either...but I suppose that I have a certain amount of close minded bias because, if for no other reason, I do not really know what the fine line of seperation is between gay and straight thoughts.

 

But in all fairness, lets make a comparison:

 

Gay people are considered deviant because they do not pro-create with people of the oppositte sex no? It is also pointed out that they CHOOSE to do this in free will!

 

Explain then , the priest or nun who is celebate. And they do so by choice and free will.

Does that also not go against the natural way, nature and God's human design?

 

Not taking sides, just pointing out one side attacks the other side for doing the same thing.

 

 

I am not a bigoted, predjudiced or biased ( that I know of) person. I suppose we all have a touch of it, but we are human afterall.I do not do it purposely or consciously, but suppose some stuff still might happen.

 

I just find it arrogant and callous for somebody to say that being gay is deviant because.......the bible says so.

 

Really?

 

That same bible also says that YOU DO NOT judge others!

 

That bible says LOVE each other regardless.

 

It says that we ALL are not perfect and are born into sin.

 

It DOES NOT say that some sins are better than others, that some people who are "apparently perfect" are the exception to judging others.

 

Granted, this same religious kind of thinking also said it was okay to start massive wars because other did not think like us.

 

This same thinking also justified slavery for many a years in the southern US and hundreds of countries.

 

Certain religious groups think its murder to kill, yet will kill those who stand in the way of our religion.

 

If you look at it closely, we are not different than those we call extremists. Maybe the Taliban, perhaps? Are we really that far from throwing stones and carrying guns?

 

WE are already trying to make and enforce laws on people to FORCE them to live by OUR religion!

 

Now, I beleive in God. But "Organized religion" really scares me. Mob mentality takes precidence over common sense and the good morals that religion is supposed to promote.

 

 

One of the funniest things I ever saw was a genuine "redneck" at Wal-Mart laugjing at a black Jesus statue.

He was condemning the "poor fools" who miscolored it.

 

Well, I am a mischevios guy sometimes, so I walked up to him and asked him if he knew where Israel or Bethlehem was. I asked if he knew where the middle east was.

 

Once I told him where it was, I asked him if he really thought that a baby born in Israel, who grew up on the East Bank and Gaza strip .., one the boarder of the African and Indian continents was really the pasty ashen white guy we see in our bible book pictures?

 

The look he gave me was enough. Maybe somebody should explain that one to the KKK

 

Okay, I am rambling on, my point was...we are pretty arrogant and smitten if we condemn behavior because it is not ours...and we use OUR religion as a basis of fact.

 

 

[Mr. Boyce]

I think what we're seeing in this thread is that one can view these issues with "sexual relativism": what standards are there? who are you (infernal smug idiot!) to say what I can and can not do?

 

I'm not entirely convinced that this is the way to go, nor do I feel that it is only religion (an insinuated "outdated" there!) that makes us have second thoughts about considering heterosexual and homosexual actions equivalent.

 

I'm left wondering considerably if environmental factors explain it all. . . and if perhaps environmental conditions have generated more homosexual activity. (This is perhaps rather akin to the old "Roman luxury did in the Empire" view).

[Scoutfish]

Something else I have wondered about:

 

Todays generation of kids tend to be ...overall. more violent, less respectfull, and more likely to act impulsively.

 

Back when I was a kid, you respected ( most) adults , and did it woithout having the threat of getting you butt whipped.

 

You didn't talk back, you didn't fight back against everything, and for the most part, everybody trespected everybody else.

 

Today, 12 year old girls can almost pass for 21, by 21 , they might have 3 kids out of wedlock, and the father's are probably in jail if not dead.

 

What is it?

 

WEll, aside from teachers being sued if the spank you, parents being arrested for abuse if the spank you.. I wonder if it's all teh sugars, preservatives, caffiene or who knows what - hormones in chickens and cows?

 

Something is making 13 year old boys have full beards and weigh in around 200 pounds. Girls are well..... fully developed and ready to pro-create!

 

Remember when we grew up?

 

The "junk" cereal we had was life or raisin bran. The rest of the time it was corn flakes or wheaties.

We either drank Kool-Aide or drank water. That was it! Milk was for lunch , tea for supper. You could probably count all the different brands of candy bars on both hands.

 

Count all the different cereals on both hands.

 

No caffiene drinks, energy bars, and no drugs for every concievable "social issue" that kids had!

 

Am I the only one who wonders about the connection?

[packsaddle]

Unless something has changed recently, there are no hormones used in poultry production:

http://www.plamondon.com/faq_myths.html

 

this is just one of many similar links.

Now if you were concerned about antibiotics and Salmonella or something like that, THAT would be a different matter.

[Mr. Boyce]

With respect to the influence of religion on this debate, we should remember that many major Protestant denominations are fine with homosexual behavior. . . and there are contrived (in my opinion) readings of the Bible which try to wash away condemnation (some people want to accept these whirlitzing mazurkas of interpretation, simply because it's a stress having to deal with arguing people coming at you).

 

While there is very likely quantitatively more bizarre heterosexual activity, my guess is that it's more private. My guess is that there is proportionately more bizarre homosexual activity. I was surprised to learn of state gay rodeo clubs, for instance: these kinds of things make me believe that sexuality is a more important thing in the life of a homosexual than that of a heterosexual. I suppose having children does cut into your sex life!

[packsaddle]

re: cutting into sex life, tell that to Warren Jeffs or Winston Blackmore. But your point is well-taken. It could be the reason for the Southern Baptists to place a renewed emphasis on 'submission' by wives.

[Novice_Cubmaster]

Why are there state gay rodeo clubs?

 

Same reason there's Black History Month. If the "mainstream" of any group excludes you long enough, you make your own group.

 

NC

[Eagledad]

>>You will find that I NEVER said it was arrogant to follow God's word anywhere. I did say it is arrogant FOR US TO CLAIM God wouldn't like something or that our God would condemn something based on OUR ideals when it was plainly stated that we are not to judge others.

[Scoutfish]

Could it be because....He is the judge? Not you, not I.

 

Just as I ytell my son not to hit somebody just because they hit him. The person who hits will be judged, but it is not my son's place to make that judgement.

 

 

"There is a purpose to judging others in their sin as there is a purpose to judging your childrens' misbehavior. Judging shapes our behaviors for a more civil society. The problem is a lot of folks judge without understanding or for their own interest"

 

1) Yeah, we can look at others and decide that someting just isn't for us.

 

2) But then again, saying somebody else is committing a sin and that they are immoral BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CONDONE is a case of judging for our own interest. OURS ONLY.

 

That is something we are not supposed to do. By doing just that, you are condemning somebody just because they do not share your own personal views..which is a very, very narow view of people.

 

Now, what I did mention as arrogant is saying (specifically) that since gays cannot reproduce, they are going against nature and God's way.

 

YET, priests and Nun DO THE EXCAT SAME THING...go against nature and God's way... ON purpose!

 

So tell me...how arrogant is it to say that if you do something for your reasons, it's wrong, but if I do the exact same thing...but for MY reasons, it's nobile?

 

Do as I say, not as I do?

 

Arrogance!

 

In God's words ( although not exact qoutes) we are supposed to respect each other, get along with each other, accept each other and quit acting like each of us are high and might and better than everybody else!

[Beavah]

But then again, saying somebody else is committing a sin and that they are immoral

 

Yah, that sentence seemed to be da one that best captured how I think things were getting confused.

 

I think there's nothing wrong with judging actions, eh? We do that all the time. We need to. It's how we make choices, how we learn.

 

There's nothing wrong in a Scouting context to saying "that is unsafe". We hopefully tell kids that on more than a few occasions. That is a judgment, eh? It is a judgment of the action. Now, we might disagree and then discuss whether we're correct about the judgment for a case, but we all I hope recognize that making such a judgment is an OK thing. Every time we teach a scout to do or not do something, we are making such judgments, and hoping they learn how to make such judgments on their own. What action is, or is not, in keeping with the Scout Law is a judgment!

 

But then yeh see what happens in some threads when someone gets a bit hot and starts claiming that an adult or a troop is unsafe, eh? That's a different thing. Now we're not judging actions, we're judging people. Yah, dats not OK, eh? Not without knowing the people a lot better than we do.

 

So it's OK to talk about actions being sinful in general. Murdering someone is sinful, in general. But when it comes to saying a person is evil because he has committed murder, that's a bit too far, eh? We can't see what's in his heart, we can't know all da circumstances. And even though what he did might have been wrong and merit sanction, as a person he still deserves human compassion. It's an act of kindness to visit the imprisoned, eh?

 

So it's OK to talk about homosexual activity as being sinful, OK to say we don't want it taught or modeled for kids. It's a choice, same as any sexual activity (outside of being raped) is a choice. Just ain't kosher to judge a gay or lesbian person as being evil, or condemned to hell or any of that. I reckon lots of monogamous heterosexuals who we see as model citizens will end up in da furnace long before the gay couple down da street. God sees hearts, eh? And it's an act of human kindness to treat people with compassion. I'm happy to have a beer with the gay couple down the street, and Bill borrows my tools on occasion.

 

Beavah