Interesting article on homosexuality

[sherminator505]

"With this, I'm just trying to find answers."

 

What questions are you trying to find answers for? Are you simply trying to justify your own feelings toward homosexuals? Are you seeking to defend a policy that you really can't square 100% with your conscience? Is this an effort to satisfy your intellectual curiosity, or is it simply a quest to find the "magic bullet" to win the water cooler wars?

 

Perhaps you might want to examine your questions more carefully. Perhaps you should consider the place from whence your questions come. If you did, you might come to some interesting conclusions.

 

For example, I have seen you post on more than one occasion that homosexuals have a higher incidence of pedophilia than heterosexuals. Assuming that this is true, have you really considered why that might be? Would this be attributable exclusively to their sexual orientation, or do societal factors play a role? Could the peer pressure to repress one's sexual orientation limit healthy personal development?

 

I don't know the answers to those questions, but I do know a couple of things. First, I know of two molesters that victimized family and friends. Both were, by all appearances, heterosexual. I also know quite a few people who are openly gay, and I don't worry that they would molest anyone. So I guess that the questions that end up being asked depend greatly on one's preconceived notions.

[Scoutfish]

Okay, all fancy words aside..and not try to be so academically pompus - I say look at a simple obvious, yet un-noticed stat here:

 

Priests and Alter boys.

 

The priests are male, the boys are male, they are in a somewhat secluded situation..

 

But suppose it was women priets and alter boys or priests and alter girls.

 

Would the incidences of occurance bethe same? Higher, Lower?

 

So , yeah, I bet there may be a case or two where homosexuality is the core issue.....But I'd bet that most likely, it's more a matter of oppertunity and availability than a matter of sexual preference.

 

Know what I mean? Nale priests and male alter boys. Is it really homosexual or is it just that there isn't a choice between the boys who are there and the girls who are not there?

[vol_scouter]

First, pedophiles have sex with PRE-pubertal children. Typically, the perpetrator is an adult male forcing himself on a female although males are not uncommon. These are very sick individuals and labeling them as homo- or hetero- sexual is probably not correct. They are very ill and have a high recidivism rate (near 100%). Adults having sex with post-pubertal youths is correctly identified as a ephebophiles as earlier posted. The CDC has reported many times that the prevalence of long term homosexuals in America is less than 2%. Clearly, homosexuals and heterosexuals are ephebophiles. The question that I have not seen a good non-biased peer reviewed study report, are 98% of those molestations by heterosexuals. If, as someone suggested, the rate of homosexual ephebophilia is 5%, then the incidence of homosexual abuse is 2.5 times greater than expected. So that becomes the real issue, what are the actual rates? Due to the strong feelings on all sides, I rather doubt that the issue will be scientifically answered.

[Scoutfish]

 

 

I comp[letely agree with that!

 

Earlier in the thread, somebody commented: "You may find your biases unsupported."

 

I can only say: People with biases , do not recognize their own bias and will find support in some shape, way or form...wether factual or not!

 

[Mr. Boyce]

Dan Kroh:

Instead of the anger, please just send me a few scientific references. Thank you.

[DanKroh]

vol_scouter,

 

A couple of problems with your off-the-cuff analysis I just want to point out.

 

Assuming for a moment that these numbers are accurate:

 

1) The CDC has reported many times that the prevalence of long term homosexuals in America is less than 2% (what is the margin of error on that estimate, btw?)

2) If, as someone suggested, the rate of homosexual ephebophilia is 5% (ahh, the ever scientific "someone suggested")

 

your conclusion that "then the incidence of homosexual abuse is 2.5 times greater than expected" suffers from an egregious logical fallacy.

 

You assume that all same-sex ephebophilia is being perpetrated by people who are "long-term homosexuals". Aside from the fact that this completely discounts bisexuals, it ignores an important fact about sexual abuse.

 

Sexual abuse/molestation/rape is about power and opportunity, not about sexual attraction or sexual satisfaction.

 

Why do so many people seem to have so much trouble understanding that? Heterosexuals can and do commit sexual predation on victims of the same-sex.

 

The question that needs to be asked is what percentage of the homosexual population may also happen to be pedophiles and ephebophiles.

 

Well, guess what? That question has been asked and studied:

 

(BTW, Mr. Boyce, THIS is what a citation looks like, for future reference).

 

Groth, A.N., & Birnbaum, H.J. (1978). Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 7 (3), 175-181.

 

Jenny, C., Roesler, T. A., & Poyer, K. L. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics, 94(1), 41-44.

 

Krugman, R. D. (1994). Sexual politics and child protection: They don't mix [Commentary]. Pediatrics, 94, 45-46. (A commentary, but contains many more good references)

 

McConaghy, N. (1998). Paedophilia: A review of the evidence. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 32(2), 252-265.

 

For the layperson, here is also an excellent article: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/gays-anatomy/200809/homosexuality-and-pedophilia-the-false-link

 

Conclusion by these and many more studies: pedophilia/ephebophilia is no more prevalent among homosexuals than it is among heterosexuals.

 

"Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear?"

[DanKroh]

Mr. Boyce,

 

You seem to have posted your request while I was answering vol_scouter with that very thing.

 

Enjoy the reading.

[Mr. Boyce]

Thanks. So while I follow up on your suggestions, I should just discount this?

 

"More recently, in organs such as the Archives of Sexual Behavior, the Journal of Sex Research, the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy and Pediatrics, it has been established that homosexuals are disproportionately represented among child molesters."

 

[Mr. Boyce]

. . . and I should discount this?

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf

[packsaddle]

". . . and I should discount this?

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf"

 

Heavens NO!!! You should always wear a condom when you have sex with other men. Good Grief!

[Mr. Boyce]

I guess the final impetus for my interest in this question is that not only am I involved in scouting, but I also wonder if there's just a big propaganda machine that's been developed here, to pressure the public, to whitewash reality. So I'm searching for more than just guesses. I'm not keen on seeing the democratic system manipulated and abused.

[sherminator505]

"I guess the final impetus for my interest in this question is that not only am I involved in scouting, but I also wonder if there's just a big propaganda machine that's been developed here, to pressure the public, to whitewash reality."

 

To what end?(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Scoutfish]

Seems to me, that there is a want for to argue wether people ( as it may pertain to this site) who abuse and molest scouts might be more predominantly heterosexual or homosexual in Nature.

 

Then the following of references which only prove that a select control groups ( possibly from different countries that also have different social views on such behavior) - are no more than "one upmanship" attacks on each other.

 

But what about what should be the focus here: SCOUTS! Are any of you gonna spend more time and energy figuring out the sexual nature of an abuser or potential abuser than actually just preventing abuse?

 

You know..that's a great thing about YP and certain parts of G2SS.

 

No one on one contact. Always 2 deep leadership.

 

Granted, BSA can have their heads stuck up their collective butts sometimes, but they sure made homo vs hetero abuse a moot point!

 

They recognized abuse as being abuse and not gay or straight abuse!

[Mr. Boyce]

Good point. It seems reasonable to believe the great majority of scout leaders are heterosexual. Knowing that self-identified heterosexuals commit the bulk of abuse means controls are essential.

[vol_scouter]

Dan,

 

The 5% was taken from Packsaddle's hypothetical. I do not recall the error bars on the 2 CDC studies but they will not account for the numbers that homosexual groups claim. I agree that it is not scientifically accurate to equate long term homosexuals as the sole perpetrators but since that is typically not reported, I have no basis to make a better approximation. You are well aware that not all ephebophiles are committing a crime of violence - some are crimes of passion. Homosexuals commit some of those crimes. The question is what is that rate as compared to the prevalence of homosexuality. The last time we discussed this via this forum, I looked up some of the references and the studies were performed by groups or researchers who were members of pro-homosexual groups or whose websites had a pro-homosexual theme which brought the validity of the studies into question. I have not read the studies that cited so I cannot comment upon them but I suspect that they have similar author bias (not entirely fair). I have read many articles on both sides and have not seen a scientifically rigorous study. In my mind, the issue is not settled. That said, I am not trying to contradict you but I am saying that I do not believe that the answer is honestly known at this time.