Are Taoist boys allowed to join BSA?

[packsaddle]

I wasted my time and read the entire thread. Kahuna gave the answer...no need to read further.

 

This unit has had a broad range of faiths as members, including the adult leadership: Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Jainism, Baha'i, Sikh, as well as some of the usual '28 flavors' of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Kahuna's response applies to all. If the applicant is able to agree to the terms, that is all that is needed...indeed, all that CAN be required. For this and other reasons, I consider the DRP to be stupid and ineffective, kind of like the stupid and ineffective approach to gays.

 

I do know Buddhists who are atheists in scouting. If Merlyn's point is that an atheist is an atheist, no matter what else a person calls himself, and BSA ought to exclude all of them, then I think Merlyn is consistent with his point. The fact that BSA doesn't apply the DRP to exclude these scouts and scouters indicates to me that BSA also agrees with Kahuna. It helps keep the numbers up while insincerely placating the '28 flavors'.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Hooboy?

 

They are related to the Po' Boys of the south, where they are a revered institution

[BadenP]

Who here really can judge impartially what is or is not a true religion. All organized religious institutions were created by human beings who are imperfect and flawed and logically so is the all religious doctrine, which has already been pointed out in this thread. So before we judge someone to be an atheist or a member of an illegitimate faith maybe you need to do some reflection about your own faith and how you choose to live it.

[Beavah]

Yah, LIBob, yeh got da right answer early on. The BSA and most BSA units would welcome a Taoist scout with open arms as a brother in Scouting. We would welcome a Taoist religious body as a chartered partner. We would welcome the creation of Taoist religious awards if the Taoist chartered partners would propose awards that they agreed upon and would meet their needs.

 

So by all means, invite your friends and any other families in da Taoist community to join the brotherhood of Scouting! Like any community, we have a few self-centered members who aren't used to folks from non-western cultures (or who even have issues with nearby Christian denominations ). Dat's America, eh? Nothing different from what the boys will run into in school or in life, in fact, usually a lot better. And in your part of da country where there's more diversity it won't be a problem. Da kids will be fine.

 

Merlyn is not a scouter nor is he in any way familiar with the BSA's policy or practices. He's an atheist fellow still caught a bit in his teenage years, where everything is black and white and it's fun to argue and point out weaknesses and inconsistencies in everyone else. All such folks have "causes", eh? His is to try to denigrate the BSA in various ways, and to try to use da mechanisms of government to coerce the BSA to do things his way.

 

Doing good work ourselves, and using a set of external ideals to reflect on our own personal beliefs and actions is the point of da BSA's Declaration of Religious Principle, eh? Without some deeply held beliefs outside of ourselves that we can use to examine our own conscience, use to reflect and self-examine, we all run da risk of becoming selfish folks blindly absorbed in our own unproductive personal causes. Da best kind of citizens have some sort of belief like that which serves to guide and challenge us. Taoists do, so they are welcome as both scouts and adult leaders.

 

Merlyn does not, eh? So da BSA's position makes him bitter. He's got a lot of zeal, so I have hope that some day his brain will get around to recognizing what clearly his heart knows, that there really is something to this religious stuff, eh? That, done well, it makes one a better person. He keeps hanging out in scouting forums like this one because he feels that draw. Just like with kids, rebels are da ones who really care most deeply and make da strongest converts. From Paul of Tarsus to Whitey in Follow Me Boys.

 

So that's your answer, while we wait for Merlyn to get knocked off his horse . Invite the Taoist boys! They, their parents, and their church community are welcome.

 

Beavah

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

All welcome except for the atheists*, Beavah; but you have no real respect for atheists.

 

*and gays, of course.

[sherminator505]

"All welcome except for the atheists*, Beavah; but you have no real respect for atheists."

 

Come, now. I'm sure there are athiests out there that Beavah respects!

[Eagledad]

>>Kahuna gave the answer...no need to read further.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Not intellectually; Beavah, like a lot of other believers, claims that atheists "know in their hearts" that god exists. I think believers are wrong, but I have enough respect for them in general to accept that their beliefs are sincere and not a facade.

[Beavah]

Nah, yeh misunderstood me, Merlyn.

 

I don't believe all atheists know in their heart there's a deity. I know a fair number of atheists and agnostics, and I reckon quite a few are quite happily convinced there is no deity, and we respect each other.

 

I was just trying to explain you to the new fellow. . What I said about Paul of Tarsus applied to you personally, it wasn't a statement about all atheists. You're the fellow with zeal and passion for justice who is just misapplying your talents at the moment, but you're drawn like a magnet to forums with religious folks like this one. Neither of those things applies to da other atheists I know. They are contentedly atheist, where you are quite humorously and passionately anti-theist.

 

As Elie Weisel once said, the opposite of Love isn't Hate, it's indifference. Similarly, da opposite of religiosity, true atheism of the heart, is indifferent to religion. You aren't indifferrent to religion, yeh actively oppose it. That's not deep atheism, it's da surface atheism of rebellion. It's Saul before Paul, Whitey before gettin' into scouts.

 

Yeh should go read Thompson, eh? Da Hound of Heaven.

 

Beavah

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah writes:

I don't believe all atheists know in their heart there's a deity.

 

Ah, you were only accusing me, personally, of dishonesty when you wrote:

I have hope that some day his brain will get around to recognizing what clearly his heart knows

 

Well, I genuinely am an atheist, and I genuinely think you're contemptible.

[BadenP]

Merlyn

 

It always surprises me that when someone else, as in this case, shoots down your argument and proves your premise to be false that you swiftly turn your energy to attacking that individual instead of providing evidence to support your statements. This was a thread about Tao boys joining boy scouts, the correct answer was given so instead you turn it into your usual atheist biggoted hogwash.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

People constantly say I'm wrong, but hardly ever quote me and point out exactly what I said that was wrong. It's nearly always vague accusations with no details.

 

Yawn.

[studentscout]

While I agree with Kahuna (and I have now read the entire thread), I sort of understand Merlyn's point of view. Maybe I'm still stuck as a teenager too. To me Buddhism is inherently atheistic, maybe even essentially atheistic (in an indifferent sort of way, LOL). After all, Gautama Buddha held that belief in a supernatural deity is unhealthy, that belief in what BSA refers to as 'God' basically chains the mind to samsara and diminishes the ability to achieve enlightenment and higher consciousness. I'm still learning and the more I learn, the more I agree with this philosophy.

I guess I may be the flip side of Merlyn in the eyes of some. I'm an atheist who BSA has embraced as a member because I practice Buddhism. Merlyn could be similarly welcomed by BSA but he hasn't chosen the way for his life that I chose for mine.

Or am I about to get the Judeo-Christian boot?

[Eagledad]

>>People constantly say I'm wrong, but hardly ever quote me and point out exactly what I said that was wrong>Ah, you were only accusing me, personally, of dishonesty when you wrote:

I have hope that some day his brain will get around to recognizing what clearly his heart knows

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Barry writes, first quoting me (and line 2 is Beavah):

>>Ah, you were only accusing me, personally, of dishonesty when you wrote:

I have hope that some day his brain will get around to recognizing what clearly his heart knows