Are Taoist boys allowed to join BSA?

[Beavah]

Which doesn't match their stated policy...

 

In the opinion of an outside, admittedly biased observer who is willing to :

 

1) disregard the expert testimony of those who are real scouters and more familiar with both the policy and actual practice

2) ignores the context and nature of the litigated disputes.

3) attempts to make a policy case out of one sentence of one form, while ignoring the rest of the form and the other BSA documentation.

 

Like all folks with prejudice and bias approach topics, it ain't particularly rational.

 

I reckon that da BSA volunteers and pros are the ones who are most qualified to interpret the meaning of the policy and it's actual practice.

 

Remember. kids don't know how to use a car on their own until they reach a certain age, eh?

 

Beavah

(who, having brought things back around to da earlier exposition, will now watch with amusement as Merlyn gets da last word. Several times)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Like I said Beavah, that's how people bend the rules. BSA officials have stated in court under oath that youth members who are atheists can't join. You can break that rule if you want, but it doesn't make it go away.

[vol_scouter]

Beavah,

 

You are trying to reason with the irrational who displays bigotry towards an organization that is dedicated to helping youth. He always has the last word because everyone else gets tired of pointing out the error in his points. I will watch with curiosity to see if you are more successful.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Hey vol_scouter, have you stopped killing dogs for fun yet?

 

And by the way, the BSA only helps SOME youth. That's kind of the point.

[sherminator505]

"However, your inflammatory rhetoric does so to the BSA which is merely exercising its' constitutional right of free expression."

 

I think the phrase you are looking for is "free exercise."

[Beavah]

OK, vol, I'll give it one more go just for you

 

Like I said Beavah, that's how people bend the rules. BSA officials have stated in court under oath that youth members who are atheists can't join. You can break that rule if you want, but it doesn't make it go away.

 

Like I said (and like the Supreme Court said in Dale), it is the BSA and it's membership that define how it's rules are to be interpreted and applied in practice. Just like it is climate scientists who can tell you authentically how to interpret and apply their writings on climate. Outsiders with an agenda who try to pick apart individual sentences out of hundreds of pages of documents inevitably just get it wrong.

 

Like I said, the job of an attorney is to provide a zealous defense for a client in a litigated dispute. But not everything is a litigated dispute, eh? There is a difference between how one responds to someone who is going out of their way to pick a fight and how one responds in other cases. Court cases resolve disputes, they do not define business practices.

 

Again, it is da BSA, not Merlyn, who is the authentic interpreter of its own policy and practice. This forum has BSA members from across da country, from dozens of different chartering partners, from all levels of da BSA. They have all told you the same thing, consistently, year after year, and pointed out how da BSA's written documentation differs for youth and adults on the matter. Like a climate change denier, yeh continue to ignore expertise and the entire body of evidence and pick on out-of-context isolated quotes as "evidence".

 

Physics tells us that when an object is very dense it distorts all the light around it. Don't blame those of us shedding light on da matter for the distortion you see.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah, you may as well point to bank robberies and argue that, since citizens ultimately make & enforce the laws, showing that some citizens rob banks means that robbing banks is legal.

 

The original post had this question:

"If I encourage them to put their son in scouts will there be some time in the future when they feel "BSA doesn't want us?""

 

If the national BSA finds a member who's an atheist, they remove their membership. It can also happen at the troop level, because some troops enforce it and some ignore it. Pretending it isn't a problem doesn't make it so.

[Eagledad]

>>Pretending it isn't a problem doesn't make it so.

[Beavah]

Merlyn, da original post concerned Taoist boys.

 

The BSA welcomes Taoist youth as members. Even though you see some or all Taoist youth as "atheists" and therefore ineligible for membership, we do not.

 

Since it is our organization, what we say goes.

 

It truly is not a problem.

 

Beavah

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

You may not have noticed Eagledad, but the original post asked about Taoists, some of whom might have religious beliefs that don't mesh with the BSA's religious requirements. He wanted to know if there might be problems. I'd say it's pretty clear that there might be. Beavah seems to think atheists can join the BSA, and problems can never crop up from that.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah, who's this "we"? Are you in charge of registration at BSA national? I doubt that.

[Beavah]

Merlyn, da question is whether you speak for BSA national, since yeh claim to be more of an authority than any of us who are actually in da organization.

 

Of course, if yeh knew what you were talking about, you'd know that member registration is a local council function, not an Irving office one.

 

You know, I saw once on YouTube that in order to be an atheist, you must love blueberry pie (

). So I don't care what you or any other atheist claim is really true, I know that blueberry pies are always a requirement for atheists.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah, I can cite:

1) national BSA revoking someone's membership for being an atheist

2) BSA testimony in court that atheists don't meet their membership requirements

3) atheists writing on the web where they were kicked out for being atheists when the wrong people found out

 

Now, can you offer any time when BSA national knew about an atheist and didn't revoke their membership? Can you find a BSA official stating in court that atheists can join?

[Trevorum]

Merlyn, on this issue you are looking for a problem where there is, genuinely, none.

 

The question is not whether BSA will/can/has revoked membership of a self-proclaimed atheist; the question is whether BSA will/can/has revoke membership of a self-proclaimed Taoist. The answer is, "no."

 

BSA accepts and welcomes Taoists, Buddhists, Unitarian Universalists and others who have no belief in a supreme being. BSA has never revoked membership of anyone in any of these faith communities on charges of atheism.

 

 

 

This horse is long dead. Give it up. Please.

 

 

 

 

 

To the OP: "Yes, Taoists are welcome in the BSA!"

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Trevorum, that's like saying the BSA allows Minnesotans to join. In the general case, yes, they do.

 

However, I'm a Minnesotan, and I'm an honest atheist, so I would not be permitted to join.

 

There ARE atheists who are also Taoists. They do not meet the BSA's requirements any more than an atheist Minnesotan.