Engineer61 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 What about other offensive/illegal/questionable choices.. What if a Scout states publicly that... He is an Atheist. He is a member of a hate organization. He is a gang member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Define "hate organization". As much as we'd all like to believe there is a universal definition, there isn't. There are people who would define the Republican Party as a hate organization, there are people who would define the ACLU as a hate organization, there are people who would define the Boy Scouts of America as a hate organization. By the same token, there is no universal definition of offensive or questionable. There are people who would consider boys joining the cheerleading squad to be a questionable choice. So too, I find it to be offensive when people protest outside and abortion clinic holding pictures of fetuses (foeti?) - and others do not. So really, the best answer is to just let the Scouts be Scouts and stop letting adult hang-ups get in the way of delivering a good program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troop24 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 What a wonderful response Calico. I don't think I could have said it any better. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted May 25, 2010 Author Share Posted May 25, 2010 Sorry...I didn't think I needed specifics for hate organizations... But here goes...how about... Ku Klux Klan White Aryan Resistance Nation of Islam These three are classified by the FBI as hate organizations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Yah, but it's hard for lads to really get into most of those unless they have family contacts, eh? More likely they try on some of da trappings here and there, buy a T-shirt, start a look-alike group that apes the "look" of some edgy organization. Just the way most teenagers try out everything from philosophy to new hairstyles to black clothing. Yeh treat such stuff like a scoutmaster, eh? You engage with the boy as an example, mentor, and friend. That doesn't mean yeh shouldn't respond more firmly to behaviors, eh? Just not da other stuff. Racist comments, picking fights, stealing and whatnot all merit a response, which might include being removed from the troop. No different for homo- or hetero- sexual behaviors on a troop trip, eh? Lewd comments, crude gestures, PDA, or "gettin' it on" would all merit an appropriate response. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 Sad.. I have heard of boys getting all the way to their EBOR, and then not getting Eagle award due to stating at the board he doesn't believe in God, or something that would define him as an atheist. I have never heard of anyone announcing Homosexuallity at the board, but I am sure it has been done. Atheism I take to mean that they put their faith in science rather than a higher being. I don't find that so bad. Or meaning that they have poor character. I have known atheists that treat their fellow man with more kindness then some church goers.. Same with homosexuallity.. I know it could mean loose values, but so could heterosexual.. I know may homosexuals that live a pretty normal life. Maybe have a life partner (if not in a state where they married.) Now some gangs may be just a group of gays hanging on a Saturday night. But for truely people who get into violent gangs, or Klu Klux clan.. Hmmm.. I scratch my head to see them remove their colors or remove their sheet and say.. "Sorry, guys I have to now skip of to boyscouts, back in a few.." But, if there was someone like that, then they are not living up to the Boy Scout code. He can stay in the troop (as long as he is not disrupting the troop) in hopes he will change. But, I don't think he could go for the Eagle award without changing his beliefs. Now I have seen a wonderful boy go through scouts and get his Eagle.. He was truely Gothe (I don't know if I spelled that right.) The long hair, some strands colored. He might have worn the uniform, but was never without this black trench like coat.. I am sure once he left the troop he would ad some makeup and chains.. or whatever. Parents would check out the troop. Take one look at him and leave. But, if you talked to him he was the kindest soul.. The younger boys in the troop loved him, although they nicknamed him Vampire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherminator505 Posted May 26, 2010 Share Posted May 26, 2010 "What about other offensive/illegal/questionable choices.. " Let's dissect that, shall we... offensive - What did Brigham Young say about this? "He who takes offense when offense was not intended is a fool, yet he who takes offense when offense is intended is an even greater fool for he has succumbed to the will of his adversary." Never mind the fact that a Scout, whether gay or not, probably wouldn't set himself up to be your adversary. This is offensive to you because you let it be! illegal - Do you live in a jurisdiction where being gay is still illegal? By and large, any laws to that effect have pretty much disappeared. questionable - OK. This one is fair. Let us examine the reality that some religious denominations have been questioning and/or actually doing something about the exclusion of gays. So apparently, notions about religious attitudes about gays are questionable. So is your attempt to equate gays to gang members,etc., but I digress.(This message has been edited by sherminator505) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanRx Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 What is the SM works for a bank that took TARP funds? What if the scout gets pinched for a petty theft? What if the scout's parents run an internet porn site from home? Unfortunately, unlike school board lawyers, real life isn't full of cut-n-dry zero-tolerance issues. As adults we are trying to teach these youth that 1) There are responsibilities for ones actions and 2) There are many grey areas in which reasonable people have to sometimes make tough decisions based on a single issues facts. You can play "what-if" all day long... it doesn't mean there needs to be a policy to every conceivable senerio. What does need to be identified is WHO on te committee gets to (for lack of a better term) determine the appropriate punishment or sanction for a given behavoir. Is it the SM, ASMs and CC? Or just the SM and 2 ASMs, etc... Identify the trusted induviduals, then stand by their decision should the need for a judgement arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdclements Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 When I was a youth member, there was a guy (Pierce) who claimed to be a Nazi and used to walk around spouting off about Hitler. Nobody would hang out with the guy and he eventually went away. A couple of the adult leaders were revealed to be in a gay relationship even though they were married with children in the unit. As youth, we didn't care, we just wanted to get to the next outing. As a SM, model the behavior that you want to see your scouts teach others. Spend time getting to know your scouts and then when one starts getting into extreme areas, you'll know if there is a need for concern. Once the youth develop respect and appreciation for your service as an adult volunteer, their biggest concern will be hearing the word "disappointed" from you. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 I would hope all the Scouts in the BSA are gang members. It is called the Patrol Method in other circles. :0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 And to continue with Deans line of thought...... What if the scout gets suspended from scholl for breaking the zero tolerance policy because he swallowed a little bit of mouthwash after getting out of the shower after gym class. Well, the kid gets busted for injesting alcohol at school which is illegal! What if the scout happens to be heading home from baseball practice,( In full uniform mind you) gets randomly stopped by a local cop who sees the baseball bat in the back - sticking out from underneath the seat - and busts the kid for carrying a concealed weapon? Maybe another scout uses his camera feature on his phone in the locker room to take a nd send a picture of his friend to that friends girlfriend. Since the picture taker wasn't paying attention...he doesn't notice that in the background, Johnny happens to be naked, Now that scout is arrested at school for a federal offense of ditributing child pornography. Think I'm pushing it a bit too far? HA HA HA! It's already happend and already been in the press years ago. Matter of fact, the incident with the baseball bat happened in my town 17 years ago. Thankfully, the cop lost his job after that stupid incident ( of many!). What it comes down to is intent...and that's hard to prove! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 moosetracker says: Atheism I take to mean that they put their faith in science rather than a higher being. That's not what atheism is. Atheism is a non-belief in a higher being. You can believe in a higher being without necessarily putting "faith" in a higher being. And you can believe that there is (or eventually will be) a scientific explanation for everything (or almost everything) and still believe in a higher being. Or, as the Borg Queen said in "Star Trek:First Contact", "You imply a disparity where none exists." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthmn Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I'll just leave this here: Search You tube for penn teller T4E01 Parte1 Strong language, very not safe for work- funny that you don't need to login to view, but that's under the 'Facebook' thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIBob Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Rule #1 Honestly I have no problem with homosexual scouts or atheist scouts so long as they keep their belief system to themselves. If they want to come to learn outdoor skills and character as taught by scouting then IMO they are welcome. If they want to change the nature of scouting or change the opions of the 11 and 12 year old kids in the troop then they have no place in BSA. Rule #2 I DO have some concerns about gay scout leaders . . . hmm well actually I've known a handful of gay men and women who have kids. If a gay man or woman has a kid in the pack or troop then see Rule #1. Rule #3 As for gang members and/or members of hate groups I think we can reasonably say such people are not scout material. I'm not sure what mechanism we should use to exclude such folks (iow how do you define "A" or how do you define "B."), but yeah such folks have no place in scouting. I'm pretty sure they tend to weed themselves out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Sad.. I have heard of boys getting all the way to their EBOR, and then not getting Eagle award due to stating at the board he doesn't believe in God, or something that would define him as an atheist. What is sad is the Scout. Living a lie so he could get an award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now