Male Role Models

[Eamonn]

I suppose at the end of the day the only thing I can pass on to others is how to be a responsible man.

I would hope that when others see me they see someone who is a good husband and father.

Someone who lives up to his responsibilities.

Not someone who jumps into bed with the next passing woman and who fathers lots of illegitimate children.

My hope would be that when young boys see that I can find ways of sorting things out without having to resort to fighting, they might take notice and learn from it.

Maybe, I can pass on to others that there is a time to act like the stereotypical man and times when not to. As a male I'm able to set that example, where as a female can only try and teach it.

Ea.

[BDPT00]

It's interesting to watch this touchy subject. I don't feel it's worthy of debate except for those who are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Assumptions otherwise aren't worth much, and that's mostly what I'm reading. Interesting to watch though. I have only one question at this point, however: DanKroh ... I'd be really interested in "what science actually supports." Can you site an experiment or two? I'm interested in the words "actually" and science."

Thanks, BDPT00

 

[Lisabob]

Hmm, what can a man teach a boy to do, that I can't...hmmm... that old Garrison Keiler piece about writing one's name in the snow on a cold winter night (ice crystals!) comes to mind.

 

Seriously, there are times when I think boys benefit from having good men around who can be mentors or role models. But that doesn't preclude good women from also being role models and mentors - and scout leaders. In fact, given the conversations that sometimes happen here (and in the real world), you would think one of the more important focal points would be on ensuring that each and every "Family Life" merit badge (Eagle-required, mind you) should be a man. After all, that badge includes a discussion of what it means to be a good father, which is certainly a part of "manhood" that women can never experience.

 

 

[DanKroh]

BDPT00, Dr Richard Swaab in the Netherlands has done some research looking at the brains of transexuals (postmortem), and found regions of the brain of MTF transexuals to be more similar female than male (and vice versa for FTMs), and that these regions are "set" during prenatal development, and not affected by hormonal influences after birth.

 

Dr. Eric Vilain at UCLA has discovered 54 genes linked to gender, indicating that it is a spectrum, not a binary, which would also indicate that it is determined at birth, rather than influenced by environment.

 

Further is the failure of gender "reparative therapy", similar to the therapy used to attempt to influence sexual orientation, but I know many people don't consider that "science".

[moosetracker]

Lisabob, funny you should mention Family Life as I teach it. I'm not a man, but the male role modeling by the advisor is not required.

 

You would hope that they would have gotten good role models from the boy scout leaders if not their own fathers to be able to put into words what they think a good father is.

 

Sadly from those from broken homes, regardless of how long they have been in scouts I see that familure deer in headlights look. I guide them to think out word from "father" to men they admire who are "father-like" think about the question and let them contemplate it for a while.

 

I guess I put my foot in it on my last merit badge. The other question is The responsibility of the parent. In this I get them to explain responsibility of both sets of parents unless I know of problems. Last I knew this scout was in a stable home. In recent months the Mother was the one who I guess was breaking up the home in a very destructive manner. So the boy was fine talking about the father, but near tears when parent lead me to get him to think about both parents.

 

Family life can be a very tricky MB to work on.

[packsaddle]

I mostly saw this while I was a CM. Single moms mostly would express an interest in having male role models for their sons (about 50% of the pack had single moms). Some of them would even pick a pack based on their perception of which den leaders suited them best (at least that's what they told me, coming into my den...made me a bit nervous, LOL). Anyway, the concept of 'male role model' is something that each of them had in their minds and when I talked with them about it during the rare quiet times at campouts, etc., their views of good role models ranged from 'not the jerk who I divorced' to 'males who demonstrate through their lives that men can be solid, thoughtful persons who can be depended on to take on responsibilities and follow through on them'. I think of this one as James Stewart. That sort of thing.

The point is, in the end the concept is up to the individual to define in one's own mind and like the moms in my pack, they are quite varied.

I suspect that a hypothetical pack with a strutting, puffed up, testosterone-poisoned leadership (John Wayne in this case) would attract others, perhaps for similar stated reasons. I see no way to sort this out or make sense of it other than to chalk it up to individual perceptions.

(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Basementdweller]

Must chime in

 

My experience has been most single mom's enroll their sons in Cub Scouting to give them a positive male role model. I am part of an inner city scouting unit and Fathers are either not present or Addicted to something.

 

It has been my experience that there is a definite difference between boys who are raised in a single Parent house hold and a two parent house hold with a Positive Male role model.

 

The boys who come from a participating two parent home typically are more mature and better balanced as individuals. Less likely to have anger, trust or violence issues.

 

These are just generalization from my experiences so don't get all defensive. I understand that things are different in more affluent suburbs and cities, MONEY makes a huge difference in peoples lives. Of course I have also seen the parents who are wealth not participate in their children's lives either thru technology or nanny's.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[perdidochas]

Phibbles,

 

While I do agree that female leaders are a good thing, I also think that only female leaders wouldn't be a good thing. Male parenting and female parenting are different (for the most part). Female teaching and male teaching are different. I think young males do need male role models, and unfortunately, in our society, they have few male role models. Think about how few teachers are men, especially in elementary grades. Males provide different types of leadership than do women. I think boys need to be exposed to more male leadership in their teens.

[perdidochas]

Jblake: "generally speaking, the group preservation dynamics/risk taking dynamics will hold true. The female protects the young and the male is expected to venture and risk to provide for the young."

 

Phibbles: While may be true for most people, it is not a given. These are roles that our society passes down from generation to generation. Again...what if didn't? What if instead, we taught our children how to both protect and venture?

 

 

I would argue that it is more than just societal, but is biological. Men and women (from the womb on up) produce different kinds of hormones. Those hormones do effect the way we think/act/react.

 

I've seen it in my nieces, compared to my sons. They just have different modes of play and behavior. Studies of kids who were gender reassigned due to birth defect show differences.

 

The thing is, protecting and venturing are opposing characteristics. Both are needed, but a single person can't project both.

[perdidochas]

Jhankins:Unfortunately in our society today, "your gender is your gender" isn't as true as it used to be. Transexual issues are pervasive across the country and in every generation. It's common to see boys say "I'm a girl trapped in a boy's body" and vice versa. Gender identity is becoming a huge issue, and I think the more we polarize the gender lines, the more difficult it's going to be for kids.

 

I think the opposite is true. I think we had less problems with sexual identity in the past, when gender lines were even more polarized than today.

[acco40]

It is not that women can't teach as well. It's not that women are not as capable. The fact is that boys (and girls) tend to pick as role models folks that are like them - in appearance!

 

That is why it is important for black male children to see successful black male adults to emulate. Same for white female children and the rest of the world population. That doesn't make anyone better or worse, that's just human nature.

[Eamonn]

"Gender identity is becoming a huge issue"

Where?

Somehow it seems not to be an issue where I live!

Ea.

[RememberSchiff]

"That is why it is important for black male children to see successful black male adults to emulate. Same for white female children and the rest of the world population. That doesn't make anyone better or worse, that's just human nature."

 

I guess if we continue to think of ourselves by race, sex, religion, origin and not as just people that unfortunately may be true. My hope is that the many examples that we have to the contrary, e.g., Baruch Obama will lead children to consider role models from the whole population.

 

My $0.02

[Basementdweller]

Eamon your lucky......I pick up my kids on occasion from school, the Middle school is near the elementary and it is frightening that some of the boys have more makeup on than the girls. Died hair and skirts and legging, not kilts.

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Yes and all those girls in pants. It must be confusing. ( )

 

Seriously - I've seen and met some of the "guys in skirts and leggings" crowd. I don't think I'd assume these people have sexual identity issues, but rather, that they tend to be somewhat outside mainstream teen culture. And that's not always bad. There's a lot about mainstream American teen culture that is pretty questionable.