Homosexual Scouts

[Basementdweller]

The scout is Gay, Knew he was, Waited till after his BOR or ceremony to come out of closet.

 

He was living a lie, a sad statement of putting an award that high.

 

It is sad he felt compelled to earn an award from an organization who does not support his beliefs. He is perpetuating the issue not helping.

 

A moral contradiction.

 

 

I would never support an organization or person I did not believe in or support. Including Scouting.

 

I don't care one bit if he is gay or not. I just cannot believe he would sacrifice his beliefs to earn something as trivial as an Eagle.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not sure I understand everything at play here. The scout acknowledges he is gay, but there is nothing to indicate he has ever had sex with anyone.

 

We may assume most of the scouts we serve are heterosexual, but that doesnt mean they have ever had "straight" sex with females.

 

The young lad may feel drawn to homosexuality, but that doesnt mean he has had sex with boys. We know young men as they go through puberty start to have sexual thoughts, but just because a scout thinks warmly of a cute girl in his class, it doesnt mean he is having sex with her or is plotting to have sex with her.

 

I guess that's what I mean by treating scouts as asexual, we are not concerned with their sex life because there should not be any sex life to concern ourselves with. If there is a sex life (outside marriage) known to you, whether its a gay or straight relationship, there is much fodder for conversations about living the Scout Oath and Law.

 

 

We know this boy seems to be gay, but what is known about him specifically?

[Beavah]

The honesty deals with the fact that he withheld information that may have pertained to getting his Eagle, he was aware of it being questionable and went behind the scenes to check it out. Then once he found out what he needed to know then he went public and "in-your-face" with other scouts. When he was confronted by other scouts on his Facebook account, he lodged a complaint about cyber-bulling to everyone trying to discredit other scouts.

 

Yah, jblake, I'm an old fellow and easily confused.

 

But I'm not sure what about his sexual orientation pertains to the lad earning Eagle.

 

Orientation is orientation, not activity, eh? Yah, sure, if the lad is having sex (doesn't really matter who/what with) with folks, then that becomes an issue. But to my mind as a conservative Christian fellow, orientation isn't a sin. It's a challenge and a burden. It's what yeh do about those feelings and attractions that counts.

 

Now da other stuff all just strikes me as a rebellious teen acting out in inappropriate ways. Declaring he's gay (some teens do that just for da thrill of the argument, eh?). Goin' back and forth on facebook with friends. Playing da cyberbullying card after perhaps provoking the argument. All just strike me as ordinary rebellious teen lookin' for people who care.

 

I wouldn't remove him, I wouldn't push him away. I'd go out of my way to be a friend, mentor, and scoutmaster to the lad. I'd have some words with the others and look into da cyberbullying thing, too, so that the other kids learn by word and example how to treat people who are strugglin' with personal issues or stresses.

 

Ordinary scoutin' stuff.

 

Only pitfalls to be aware of are da behaviors of the adults. Be wary and watchful for da reactions of parents of other boys, and anticipate 'em when you can.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Stosh]

If the boy wasn't all that worried about the situation, why did he have to sneak around behind the scenes and seek out information that he thought might be wrong.

 

Same would hold true if the boy thought that cheating on his college exams was okay and went behind the scenes to see if someone would take away his Eagle if they found out. To me the guilt motivation was not forthright and open.

 

Then to go around afterwards and brag how they got into Harvard by cheating on the test in front of other scouts just after he got through his EBOR.

 

If the college test or homosexuality is a problem pick out the issue de jour.

 

As more and more boys find out about the situation, is it a good thing to use this boy as an example of Scouting honesty under those circumstances?

 

The boy has major maturity issues and believes that as long as you don't get caught it's okay. I don't feel comfortable having him set any examples for the other boys, that's all. Has nothing to do with his sexuality, but he's using that issue to go public.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Stosh, you still haven't come up with anything he's done that's against any rule.

 

Using your test analogy, suppose he asked around if it was against the rules to use a calculator for the test, and, not finding any rule against it, used one. You might think he "cheated", but if there's no rule against it, how has he cheated?

[Troop24]

Basementdweller said:

 

"The scout is Gay, Knew he was, Waited till after his BOR or ceremony to come out of closet.

 

He was living a lie, a sad statement of putting an award that high.

 

It is sad he felt compelled to earn an award from an organization who does not support his beliefs. He is perpetuating the issue not helping.

 

A moral contradiction."

 

The first thought I had regarding this was that it sort of parallels all of the honorable members of the Armed Forces that are serving their Country despite of the fact that they are gay. "Don't ask, don't tell" has been the policy since 1993, probably the life span of the Scout in question, why would he have any question but to act the way he did. This Scout would probably think there is no problem keeping his orientation to himself because that is what he had to do in order to stay involved in a program he enjoyed. Much like those members of the Armed Forces, if they want to continue to serve and be promoted they need to remain quiet. Yet their reward is monetary compensation, while our Scout is compensated with mentorship and learning life's lessons.

 

Beavah "Orientation is orientation, not activity, eh? Yah, sure, if the lad is having sex (doesn't really matter who/what with) with folks, then that becomes an issue. But to my mind as a conservative Christian fellow, orientation isn't a sin. It's a challenge and a burden. It's what yeh do about those feelings and attractions that counts" Just ask Jimmy Carter, eh? Sometimes you need to keep your thoughts to yourself, no?

 

[NickP412]

Am I reading the article right? The eagle scout in question was the one voted fairy of the ball? As an eagle scout I will say this is not the type of person I want representing the rank. I will put up with Michael Moore but the fairy of the ball, my God Baden Powell must be rolling over in his grave.

 

A scout it morally straight and many would argue this isnt morally straight.

 

I dont feel like getting in a full fledged debate but from what i know it sounds like he his not honest, trustworthy or morally straight. I would also bet cyber-bullying is the least of his worries.

 

This is something I would send to national, while the people on this board have proven to be very knowledgeable this seems to be a very unclear discussion.

[evmori]

I'm with basementdweller. This Scout not honest.

 

I was in Jamaica for a week OGE!

[OldGreyEagle]

Kewl, Mon...

[packsaddle]

I think Beavah has given a very thoughtful response and I agree with him. Just because the boy has not revealed his sexuality to anyone doesn't mean there's a lie. It isn't really anyone else's business. If he came out after earning Eagle, no big deal. It is his prerogative as to whether or when to ever reveal something personal like that. If anyone else doesn't like it, tough luck.

 

As long as this idiotic policy with regard to adult leaders exists, two things are for certain. First, there will continue to be gay leaders and gay boys and for the most part, we just won't know about it. Second, as long as the policy exists, BSA will be a welcome place for homophobes and in this region I can easily (and sadly) say that homophobia is alive and well...but not in this unit.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[acco40]

will put up with Michael Moore but the fairy of the ball, my God Baden Powell must be rolling over in his grave.

 

Yes, he should have kept his homosexuality quiet just like BP.

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Eagle92]

Who said BP was gay? I do believe he was married, had kids, and his wife destroyed a bunch of love letters he exchanged with a woman prior to his marriage. Also if memory served, he took a hard stance against homosexuality, and removed leaders accused of being homosexual.

[GernBlansten]

Eagle92, you clearly haven't read Jeal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-Powell_(book)

[Scoutfish]

"...why did he have to sneak around behind the scenes and seek out information that he thought might be wrong."

 

 

Okay, while not supporting or bashing this particular scout - I have to ask:

 

Who said he was sneaking around behind the scenes?

 

Did he actually come out and say this? Did he specifically tell any of you? When and to who did he confess?

 

Look, This kid may be gay as gay can be...but I have yet to see ANYWHERE that this kid himself said so.

 

The biggest and most damning proof is what a newpaper writer wrote? A person who's job it is to make any dull story more sensational in order to get ratings which means more fanfare and recognition for the writer ..which means more money!

 

The kid was voted fairy of the ball. WOW! Let's burn him! He attended a gay dance to show support for a friens and was voted (By others mind you) as the ball fairy. Maybe it was an honor bestowed to him because he didn't hide from supporting a friend who was gay . Maybe because he didn't just follow the population who might be scared to let the public see they have a less that "desireable " friend. Because he treated his friend like a friend instead of the latest fashion.

 

Again, I'm not judging this boy either way, but seems to me that this very individual ( WHO NEVER SPECIFICALLY SAID HE WAS GAY) ( as of yet) pretty much does show the values of an Eagle and a scout.

He didn't just do what was popular, but stood behind his freind. He was loyal to his friend. He stood up for a friend. He wasn't swayed by popular opinion just because it was the popular thing to do.

 

 

Meanwhile, guess who isn't living the scout way: US! We are tearing this boy a new one based on what? We THINK he might be gay? We decided that he MUST have been sneaking around and planning things behind our backs? Since he did not admit being gay to US , then he lied to us ...instead of us actually considering that it might also mean he might not be gay.

 

I have never admitted to being gay..so following some logic in here...I must be lieing about my gayness right? Or....just maybe...possibly....it could be that.....

 

 

I AM NOT GAY!

 

 

So we have the young adult/ teenager wgho supported his friend regardless of what anybody else thought.

 

Then we have a bunch of experienced adult leaders who are judging based on no evidence....just a story that a reporter wrote that implies that a kid "could possibly/ maybe/ might be".....gay?

 

Living the scout ideals indeed!

[skeptic]

Gern:

 

Jeal never once proved anything in his book; he only made very broad suggestions that few find particularly accurate. His allegations are based on poor psychological interpretations and judgments of a late 19th century English life style using late 20th century ideas. He was the only serious biographer of B.P. who came to these conclusions, and even he used the term "repressed homosexual".