Homosexual Scouts

[Bando]

"I heard it on the "Penn and Tellers "B.S" " episode on the boy scouts."

 

And it's not true. Sorry.(This message has been edited by Bando)

[bacchus]

I advocated tolerance of others views earlier. But some of you are taking it a bit far. Equating having a homosexual boy sleeping in my sons tent, with heterosexual boys and girls in a classroom? Really?

 

Also, it isn't fear or hate that I don't want my son or others in my care under the influence of an outgoing person who will influence them to follow the same path. So please stop using the word homophobe.

[evmori]

Asexual? Huh?

 

Let's see .... A boy is a male ...... how do you consider a male asexual?

[OldGreyEagle]

Welcome back Ed, you have been away for awhile

 

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Stosh]

Such a can of worms here.

 

I didn't inquire as to whether the boy should be stripped of his Eagle, so that isn't the issue.

 

I didn't inquire as to what or how to deal with the boys either.

 

I was just wondering - because they ask adults to leave under such circumstances do they expect the boys to leave as well. If they don't expect him to leave, do they discourage/encourage the boy to be in a leadership position in the troop?

 

Yes, the article is a bit vague, but the boy has made public statements about being homosexual and doesn't seem to be too concerned about losing his Eagle because he "checked it out" before going public. I guess I was more concerned about his honesty than his sexual orientation. To this point he has not mentioned anything to me.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92]

In my one expereince with something similar to this situation,the Eagle Scout was sent home from camp, but did not have his membership revoked or Eagle taken away. When he reapplied for staff the next year, while the application was initially approved by the CD, when brought to the DSS's attention, he handled the situation the previous year, the staff application was rejected. As stated previously BSA handles youth differently from adults.

[Lisabob]

OK Stosh, what's the deal with questioning his honesty? Is he honor-bound to tell you his orientation? Do you inquire of other boys? At your SM conferences do you routinely ask "now before you sit your BOR for this rank, are you sure you're straight?" (Of course you don't and I know that is a little hyperbolic, but you get the point, I'm sure.)

 

Putting all the side issues...to the side...

 

1. I've never seen, nor heard of, a BSA policy that requires youth to resign or be removed on this basis. As you stated, the policy applies to adults. As such, I hope the boy understands that once he turns 18, his membership probably would not be continued unless BSA policy changes soon.

 

2. If you had no prior inkling about his sexual orientation then I can only suppose that it has not been an issue within the troop. Since it has not been a troop issue to this point, don't make it one now.

 

(If he is using scout meetings and camp-outs to trumpet his orientation then that would be inappropriate - but the same would be true of a boy who ran around the campsite yelling "I'm straight! I'm straight!" or something of that nature.)

 

3. Continue to treat him like you treat all your other scouts. Again, if you don't know what his intentions are once he receives his Eagle rank, ASK him. From what you've posted elsewhere, I cannot imagine that you would allow that lack of clarity to exist with your other scouts. If you're now uncomfortable talking with him, make a friendly visit when his parents are there.

 

4. Based only on what you've written previously, I admire the type of troop you seem to have. You expect a lot of the boys in the troop, and it sounds like they live up to those expectations. Any boy who earned Eagle in this troop is most likely a fine individual. This boy is no exception. Honor him for what he has accomplished as a youth in scouting. As Beavah said, "don't do the drama."

[Basementdweller]

In the grand scheme of things

 

WHO CARES?????

 

He has betrayed who he really is as a person to earning award. He did not live by the law and oath he took on a weekly basis.

 

Let him enjoy his 15 minutes and publicity stunt and watch him fade away our of the public eye.

 

 

[AlFansome]

"He has betrayed who he really is as a person to earning award. He did not live by the law and oath he took on a weekly basis."

 

Basementdweller-

How so? Because he didn't live by your definition of "moral" or "clean" or whatever?

 

 

[bacchus]

"How so? Because he didn't live by your definition of "moral" or "clean" or whatever?"

 

To whom do you refer when you say "your"? The person who initiated the definition 100 years ago? Who are you to change Lord Powell's definition?

[Stosh]

The honesty deals with the fact that he withheld information that may have pertained to getting his Eagle, he was aware of it being questionable and went behind the scenes to check it out. Then once he found out what he needed to know then he went public and "in-your-face" with other scouts. When he was confronted by other scouts on his Facebook account, he lodged a complaint about cyber-bulling to everyone trying to discredit other scouts.

 

His closest friend (ASM) has kept me in the loop with information and has been concerned about how things are shaping up. He and I have discussed it at length. The dialog has been focused on the issue of how the boy is handling the situation, not the situation itself. This closest friend (my ASM) is the unidentified friend in the newspaper article.

 

The boy still comes to meetings but has indicated even long before this issue came to light he was getting his Eagle and then getting out. It is under those circumstances that I don't have him as a POR. He is also the boy who's Eagle application didn't get my SM letter of recommendation the council wanted for 6 months while he waited out a breech of trust issue he had with the troop. When the letter did go in, it was a form letter signed with no further comment.

 

I'm not looking for an excuse to get this kid out of the program, I'm just looking for any more pitfalls that I might encounter down the road as information from the boy comes to light.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Lisabob]

Where exactly did Baden Powell say that his definition of the scout oath or law included being heterosexual? Honest question, because I missed it if he did.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I was under the impression that people can't arbitrarily add (or subtract) requirements for getting Eagle. So until someone can come up with a written sexual orientation requirement, I'd say there isn't one.

[bacchus]

When somebody uses a phrase (such as morally straight) you need to apply the definition at the time that the phrase was used. You can't change the definition by using the modified fad definition from the past decade that morality is really "anything goes". You can argue he was wrong to apply morals to scouting if you so desire, that does not change the fact that it was included in the scout oath, and we must use the original meaning.

[Lisabob]

OK Stosh,

 

So you have other concerns about this boy. Those are legitimate concerns. If he isn't showing up to meetings, he doesn't need to have a POR. And maybe he also doesn't want one (this is where you need to ASK him). While not the outcome we typically hope for, there are plenty of cases of "Eagle and out" and it has nothing to do with whether a boy is gay or not.

 

About honesty - I understand what you are saying but there simply is no sexual orientation litmus test for rank. Thus, he was under no obligation to have revealed this to you, or anybody else, at any time, either before or after having earned the rank. Again, the policy about "avowed homosexuals" is an adult policy and not a youth policy.